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Tropical vs Sidereal Astrology : Ayanamsha
Vinay Jha


Age: 52
Zodiac:
Aquarius



Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 321
Location: India
Reply with quote
I refrained from writing on such topics due to personalization and emotional responses of some astrologers who feel offended with in-depth study of astrological problems in these fields. But here I feel the atmiosphere is conducive for impartial research.

Tropical Astrology started with Renaissance, in spite of false claims by Eurocentric bigots (all Europeans are not so, there are Indocentric bigots too), who impose their present habits on past. I studied Chaldean cuneiform clay tablets (translated copy provided to me from a Turkish member Gunes Aksan of VAF forum) which have horoscopes of a period from 409 BC to the 2nd century BC (world's earliest extant horoscopes with exact planetary positions described). All these horoscopes were made along sidereal system of planetary computations, and Drik Siddahanta was used by them, not SSS or any Indian-type siddhanta. The value of ayanamsha used by Chaldeans was approximately equal to SSS or Lahiri ayanamsha, exact determination is difficult due to crudity in their observations of planetary positions. From Chaldeans, Greeks and other Europeans learnt astrology, which was Sidereal till the time of Copernicus who used a distorted version of SSS trepidating-ayanamsha (which leads me to suspect that even Chaldeans used SSS  trepidating-ayanamsha because Europe got ayanamsha and astrology from Chaldeans, and there is evidence in the writings of Theon of Alexandria that SSS type of  trepidating-ayanamsha was used by Alexandrian Greeks, which was copied with slight modification by Arabs).  Trepidating-ayanamsha is due to Dolaayana or pendulum like motion of a fixed point on the circle of asterisms (Nakshatra Kakshaa) within a maximum range of plus or minus 27 degrees in every 1800 years at an annual rate of 54". According to modern writers, the value of ayanamsha was about 8 to 9 degrees among Arabs, who believed in SSS type of ayanamsha. Incidentally, the magnitude of SSS ayanamsha tallies with the value used by Arabs (SSS ayanamsgha was 8 deg in AD 1032 AD).

SSS ayanamsha was 15 deg in 1499 AD (zero in 499 AD, the zero date of Aryabhatiya). It was the time of N Copernicus and J Kepler, who were astrologers, although most of modern writers portray them as scientists and do not mention that Kepler earned his livlihood from making horoscopes (fortunately, I have their birthdata too).

This was the start of Renaissance, when ancient wisdom was rediscovered by Europe, who started reading ancient Greek texts according to Semitic alphabet and not according to actual ancient Greek whose grammar was never written down and therefore vanished. In spite of linguistic errors, many ancient theories were rediscovered, but some were distorted. One such distortion occurred in the field of ayanamsha. Europe lost the concept of ayanamsha as a separate entity, and applied a 15 degree offset in lagna (ascendant) itself around 1500 AD when ayanamsha was equal to 15 deg : Europeans started making first house with lagna at the start of first house instead of at the middle of the house. Thus, a 15 degree error occurred in houses, which was corrected by using tropical astrology and dropping ayanamsha. This change occurred around 1500 AD, and was effected by Kepler perhaps, although there is lack of evidence about who stsrted this practice. Till the time of Copernicus, including him, ayanamsha was used and sidereal charts were made.

Thus, by dropping ayanamsha and effecting an equivalent change in the start of first house, Western Astrology retained its capacity to predict accurately, because the final tropical chart was almost the same as the sidereal SSS chart with slight differences due to differences in computational algorithms.

This capacity to predict accurately was not 100% accurate because SSS was absent in the West. But origins of 12-house concept and all basic concepts of astrology in all ancient cultures have common source. Lahiri-type of ayanamsha is a modern discovery, earlier SSS ayanamsha was in vogue in India. I do not know the exact value of ayanamsha used by Copernicus or Kepler, but my computations show that if SSS ayanamsha is used with Drik Siddhanta then the end result will be closer to purely SSS values of planetary positions, then Lahiri yanamsha or its relatives will give. Here is the chart comparison for Paris, Julian 11 Mar 1500 AD, 17:13:24 PM, 5E44, 45N38 :-

SSS                                    DRIK (SSS ayanamsha)

Body                Longitude
Lagna               27 Le 43' 16.08"     28 Le 09' 49.97"
Sun - PiK           14 Pi 45' 56.03"     15 Pi 31' 28.35"
Moon - AK           25 Cn 12' 19.09"     25 Cn 24' 40.77"
Mars - BK           19 Ta 32' 49.14"     19 Ta 49' 40.78"
Mercury - MK/PK     16 Aq 53' 13.98"     18 Aq 48' 40.02"
Jupiter - AmK       24 Aq 30' 02.01"     25 Aq 56' 20.70"
Venus - DK           0 Ar 30' 58.29"      1 Ar 19' 01.26"
Saturn - GK          2 Ta 53' 33.57"      2 Ta 40' 15.45"
Rahu                25 Ta 29' 21.86"     25 Ta 34' 28.88"
Ketu                25 Sc 29' 21.86"     25 Sc 34' 28.88"
---   ---   ---
DRIK (Lahiri)

Body                Longitude
Lagna               26 Le 17' 40.45"
Sun - GK            13 Pi 39' 34.62"
Moon - BK           23 Cn 32' 47.04"
Mars - MK/PK        17 Ta 57' 47.04"
Mercury - PiK       16 Aq 56' 46.28"
Jupiter - AmK       24 Aq 04' 26.97"
Venus - AK          29 Pi 27' 07.52"
Saturn - DK          0 Ta 48' 21.72"
Rahu                23 Ta 42' 35.15"
Ketu                23 Sc 42' 35.15"
---   ---   ---

Thus, best brains of Europe like Kepler were attracted to astrology which was able to predict correctly almost 96-97% of D1 charts, but divisional charts could not be used correctly with the help of Drik Siddhanta due to greater errors, hence they were discarded millenia ago by Chaldeans or their predecessors (Sumerians). There is no evidence of divisional charts in the West due to this very reason. Only SSS can give us accurate divisionals which can be used with reliability upoto D60 is birth time is accurate, and birth time can be rectified with the help of dashaas of divisionals with fine precision if some srtong events are tuned with dashaas of strongly benefic or malefic planets.

After ~1500, Europe lost ayanamsha, and its system got stuck to tropical astrology. As a result, divergence from sidereal astrology increased with time, and inaccuracy in charts began to mount. Now, this mean error in tropical charts is about 7.3 degrees with respect to SSS, resulting is only 75.7 % accuracy in D1 charts. Thus, accuracy of Tropical D1 charts is declining at the rate of 5% per century, and will soon it will decline to levels which will cause it to be discarded completely. Divisionals have already become completely unusable in tropical system, even if someone wants to.

Some Indian astrologers are surprised at the fact why Tropical Astrology is used if it has 23 degrees of error due to lack of ayanamsha. But actual error is only 7.3 deg and not 23 deg due to lagna being at the start of first house and not at the middle.

These are not my impressions, but result of years of investigations. But Westerners will never accept these truths, although everyone knows that ancient Eyptians and Sumerians were star gazers and that means SIDEREAL : why any tropicalist will gaze at stars??? The very idea of constellations and signs points at sidereal birth of astrology which became trolocal due to over-simplication around 1500 AD in Europe.

-VJ
====================== =
RishiRahul
Astrology Reader

Age: 53
Zodiac:
Gemini



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 4817
Location: Calcutta, New York, Toronto
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Namashkaar Vinayji,

A brilliant effort to bring out the truth in SSS ayanamsa. I always try to follow the posts in the vedic astrology@yahoogroups forum etc.

Jhora version 7.51 has the option of sss ayanamsa.  But to use it as per your understanding please give some clarity in simple language.

My present understanding is =

(1) set the house division to sripathi/porphyrys.

(2) The dasa option to year with 360 tithis.

(3) Preferences---- drik vs sss------ choose sss generalised makaranda version.  Am i correct?
What ayanamsa do I choose then?
P.S: You have mentioned..."but my computations show that if SSS ayanamsha is used with Drik Siddhanta then the end result will be closer to purely SSS values of planetary positions, then Lahiri yanamsha or its relatives will give"...How do we opt for this in jhora 7.51?

Does it mean that we choose drik sidhhanta as chosen by modern planetariums... and then sss.ayanamsa?

Thanks,

RishiRahul
Vinay Jha


Age: 52
Zodiac:
Aquarius



Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 321
Location: India
Reply with quote
Namaste,

(1) set the house division to sripathi/porphyrys.

(2) The NAKSHATRA-based  dasa option to year with 360 tithis.

(3) Preferences---- drik vs sss------ choose sss generalised makaranda version.  Am i correct?

(4) In SSS mode, leave the default untouched and click OK (ie, SSS ayanamsha with zero corrections)

<<<<<
"P.S: You have mentioned..."but my computations show that if SSS ayanamsha is used with Drik Siddhanta then the end result will be closer to purely SSS values of planetary positions, then Lahiri yanamsha or its relatives will give"...How do we opt for this in jhora 7.51? ...Does it mean that we choose drik sidhhanta as chosen by modern planetariums... and then sss.ayanamsa?
>>>>>

No, this statement is only for that historical period when modern ayanamshas had not been discovered. If you want best astrological results, then use SSS with above options (Sripati Paddhati was actually SSS, but PVR got it from some modern author which is slightly different from SSS, but this is the best option presently, till the next update of JHora).

Drik siddhanta is for physical planets, SSS is for invisible astrological Grahas which are described in BPHS and SSS as incarnations of God.

For best results, use vimshottari &c  on the basis of moon's nakshatra computed from desired dividional chart. Read PVR'
s case studies at JyotishWritings.

-VJ
RishiRahul
Astrology Reader

Age: 53
Zodiac:
Gemini



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 4817
Location: Calcutta, New York, Toronto
Reply with quote
Namashkaar,

I understand now, and this is what had been suggested by the software default option.  Actually the confusion was due to the above phrase.

I regularly read Jyotish writings in detail. But no comments yet on writings.

Thanks,
RishiRahul
Vinay Jha


Age: 52
Zodiac:
Aquarius



Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 321
Location: India
Reply with quote
No Rishi Ji, the default options of SSS-mode in JHora lacks the options I mentioned in previous message here. esp the following :

Potphyry of Sripati paddhati

and middle of first house as lagna

(which is not exactly SSS, but is nearest to SSS till the next update)

D30 in JHora also needs a change in default : de-select the check box "map each 1 degree in rasi to 30 deg in D-30", but keep "Standard Trinsamsa (irregular D30 with empty Cn and Le)".

-VJ
Tropical vs Sidereal Astrology : Ayanamsha
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