Hi everybody,
Seems like Fate thats got us guys discussing the very topic over and over again for quite some time now. I mean we can't just stop discussing it can we, but it just goes on to show how much this topic means to each and every one of us and how a different sense of it prevails within each one of us (sounds like free will to me).
Anyways, Since we've all established its importance by continuous probing of the topic, I am sure you guys won't deny my request when I ask for you guys to have one more go.
It would be great if we could learn more from each other about this very important yet controversial topic.
The way I propose is for each one us to write a post giving his/her views on the topic and none of the rest will be allowed to criticize any of the point made by any other. However, if you like any of the point made by any other or your thoughts are similar to the particular point you can mention it in your post.
Once all the members are done with putting their views forward, we will end the thread without any conclusion, because, we all know there can't be a conclusion to this.
Remember the whole idea here is to add new dimensions to your thought process, so please post generously , explain your thinking as much as you want to and no one shall criticize, again, agreeing with someone is absolutely free of charge.
Just to remind you all, as RishiRahul Ji pointed out, try to relate you ideology to Vedic Philosophy, its not compulsory but since we are in the vedic section it makes sense.
In the end, all I hope is that we all learn something new from this, because, this is the mother of all topics.
regards
sahil
P.S.: Any suggestions on how to do this, most welcome!!!

Since we shall do it the Vedic way, I might not be in this discussion.....but  my Will are so great...or I am bound to not give up...so I will ask some question....no one need to answer...but ponder on it themselves


In short...If there is no free will, then there shall neither be any frustration.

If God, or the creator have the full responsibility for us, then he would not given us the ability to think, because that would make his task harder, he had to control all those strong minded, who was miserable with what they was given, and who tried to better their life outside "ITS" plan.

If God have a plan,which we can't interfere with, then why are we starting to save the world from pollution, or if pollution was not intended, why did he(she) created  it in the first place.

What was his plan with Hitler, Pol Pot, yea you name it.
Why did he create money? If our path is laid, why introduce values ?  If no will exist, then there are no need to collect values at all, because we are on our path.

At least around half (or rather more)worlds population don't bother with Astrology and the plan of God, they do as they will....is this also the plan of God, do we need to know his path through Astrology, or will it happen anyway?

If all have its path...do we need Astrology at all? Can they change anything? if so aren't there something like a will in that? Are Astrologer Gods secretary?

IF we have no free will, then we must lay down our legal system, which build on some mistaken fact that WE are responsible for our own action.
God want someone to rape, to kill, to exploit other for own gain...to fight for own freedom...to fight for own power.

I wonder what we shall learn, when we have no way to take our learning into our life, because everything is made.


And when we are at it, then we have to put down every border, every country, everything controlled by humans, because we can't control if we have no will, and God have the full control.  You can neither be given a small will...either you have it...or you don't have it.

Another strange thought can be given:
If you see us in comparison to the first life on earth, and put everything into one year. Then the first life occurred 00.001 AM 1 of January and we arrived  around 9PM the 31 of December.
Around 99% of all species that have lived was then vanished.

Just look what we have done in our 3 hours on earth....I really hope God has his plan, and that might be that humans must go, because they can't take care of their own nest!
________________

Do you agree that if you saw a thought in a human, then this thought can grow and become real?

Is that possible if everything is ready made?

If you as Astrologer say to a seeker....you are able to be a doctor....if you believe in Astrology..then you might become a doctor...because the thought is given....even if the Native would rather be an accountant,and do a much better job.

If you as Astrologer say...Yes I can see several marriages....will not that make a couple "afraid", and they start to protect themselves from harm,  will not some males use the same thought as excuse to end the marriage in name of fate?

When we give Readings, then we saw thoughts, and most of readings are fulfilled through our free will to see it done, we have therefor a responsibility to evaluate what to say, and how we say it...

If you see that a Native will die in a Train crash, shall you then tell it,shall you cross Gods will?, or is it Gods will for you to say it? but if so, why have he put the Native on the train in the first place? If you tell is the Native then able to chose not go on the Train?, if yes...is this His Will?,or is it the Creators Will, not to go on board. Again...why put him at a train in which the native had no will to go on?
Is the will borrowed just for this occasion, and then taken away again? If he/she still can have it...can't (s)he use it when (S)he fancy it?

well...there is many more questions...but I stop....thx...again...no offense intended!

Thanks for that Rhuto... that is the whole idea of this thread, no one needs to answer anybody elses post, the purpose ain't to convince any1 but to put ur thoughts forward, so as to say your mind and at the same time, its imp that we are open enough to understand wat the other one is trying to say.... this ain't a discussion, its just posting...
thanks again for the start

Just one more question....no attack on anyone...just ponder:

If everything is made, and no human being have a Free Will, why then create Religions? Why create several major ones? Why create 1000 of minor ones?

If we have no will, how can we then pay honor to our God? In order to do so we must have a will, must we not.
It seems a bit dumb to me that God order me(and many refuse....why the do, if they haven't a will to do so?) in the church to pay honor, when I can't think, or have a Will to give it,  because he controls me all the way.

On the other hand, A religion who control their followers by telling that they have no free will, that everything is in the hands of God, will achieve a great power over their followers, if they don't stop up and ask why!

Thanks Arian ji.

Good that we have spun off this into a new thread, since it was coming up in many other threads too.

Without meaning to attack other opinions, here is what I have.

I will repeat my e.g, of Ramayan that to me appears to be very serious logical challenge to free will. I am sure people who dont have faith in Ramaayan will find comparable examples elsewhere in real life/literature.

Sri Rama chose to go to Vanavaas and prim facie we can certainly say that this is an exercise of his free will. Sage Gauthama had cursed his wife Ahilya to assume stone form and upon her entreaties agreed for a vimochan. He said that many years down the line Sri Ram would come for Vanavaas and upon his feet touching her stone form she will be released of her curse.

This story clearly indicates that Sri Ram did not indeed have a free will and fate made him decide that way. If an incarnation of Maha Vishnu did not have free will how can we have it?

This does not of-course mean that we have no right or power to decide on anything. We have all of this but the result is certainly not decided by us. Each of our decision is unfortunately based on the result of an action that we have performed based on our earlier decision.

For e.g, I decide to attend an important meeting tomorrow at someplace. But my flight tonight gets cancelled and consequently I decide to participate thru telepresence. Both decisions are mine. The second decision, though made by me is not free.

Also amazingly more than 90% of our actions in our conscious state is not driven by intellect. If we were to drive our car by just intellect without employing our habits, we may  not be able to drive even a kilometre for the whole day. It is in those select moments when our intellect gets activated do we really think that we have a free will and take decisions.

If this is so, can we stop taking decisions? Unfortunately limitations of human mind does not allow this luxury. You can never decide not to decide much the same way as you can never remember to forget.

Then how do I explain successful decisions (decisons followed by actions that gave intended results)? They are statistical eventualities.

And finally (certainly not a small matter), whose free will is it anyway? Is it that of mine when I was a boy of 8 or when I was 28 or when I am 50? If I dont have the free will to stick to an identity through these years, does it really matter that I have free will in other sundry matters?

CRS