Dear CRS ji,
I have got two points to make here:
Firstly, According to you, in order to delineate a human life all we need is the exact horoscope of the person and nothing else. If I am not making a wrong inference from your post, what you mean here is that the best astrologer in the world would be able to tell everything about a person just from his horoscope, given ofcourse that he has the exact correct birth details with him.

Secondly,
So given that you agree to the above point, are you proposing that two natives with the exact same chart will lead the exact same life. I mean, you say that a horoscope should be the only criteria to make readings for natives and anything else taken into consideration is just a tactic to get away with ones incompetency, a no-brainer.

regards
sahil
I would request all our esteemed active members to post their views plz.

dear crs ji,



I agree two people born at same time and same place should have many similar events happening at almost similar time in their life and astrology cannot escape that test by saying that every second counts.

FREE WILL

free will seems to be the discussion in every thread these days.

Let me again repeat what i have said previously.

Free will exists without free will nothing can happen but the free will is only conditional i.e, we have choice in choosing but have no control in the final result. That doesnot stop us from doing what we like and most of the time thats what we do. only at help less and unexpected situations we say everything is fate and accept what has happened.

In actuality neither free will or fate exist according to advaita.

Regards,
Gs

How will u explain someone not getting job for 2 years even when u r academically sound, got good enough degrees, smart enough to clear interview  trying very hard to get job thru every resource possible BUT
still not geting job..FREE WILL??? nope, destiny

AS said before..and last above : FREE WILL are not the same as you can do what you want, to achieve everything you want, You can not say : I WILL HAVE...but you can say "I WILL TRY TO ACHIEVE SOMETHING", and if I put my mind to it, then I can IF THE ONE WHO HAVE USE FOR MY ABILITY, AND HAVE THE FREE ABILITY TO HIRE ME, DO SO"

I can never achieve something by just pointing to my FREE WILL....as said again and again...YOUR FREE WILL IS YOUR MOTOR!

As u always say u dont know much about astrology especially VEDIC ASTROLOGY so what u think is use of astrology and how
we are able to predict things.Why this sub-forum is created in MB to discuss which does ot even exist.

BE aware that I discuss as private person, and not as admin!


The one with a lot of knowledge in a subject, might become blind.
He/she search for the cases that confirm their belief, and "don't" pay enough attention to those cases that fails, and tell themselves they had not enough information. I have seen a lot of that, even in your discussion.

As one who stand on the outside, with no clue about Vedic, I can with my eyes open see that there is not a great impact on the people on the east, who believe a lot in Astrology, compared to people in the west who believe in free will. In fact many people of the east try to go to the west where the opportunities is greater.

We don't have perfect condition in the west, nor have the east....but when an Astrological system micro control the human,(education,job,marriages, divorces and so on) then I think that they have gone to far.
If such power was given, then the certification of those who should do the Reading had to be much more "important", and every government on earth, would have a department that made sure that they got the right person on the right place, because such abilities as Vedic gives, would be of great benefit to us all.

[b]There have been events when it was written 1000s of years ago.Sage mentioned that in 2006 in evening a guy from Russia with his wife will come to an astrologer and will get his prediction.And again im repeating he predicted this 1000s of years ago.
And this actually happened when his chart was opened in Hoshiarpur ,
[/b]

Yep and we have also tThe Prophecies Of Nostradamus, which has many follower and more skeptics.

The more general a Reading are, the easier it is to get it to fit.
The more specific a Reading are, the more is the danger to get it wrong.

I AM NOT AGAINST Vedic Astrology, but just like you believe in your trade, I believe in mine, that we Possess a free will as motor.

If you are right about yours, then why do we have so many people from India, that show so big frustration, and ask question few or none of you will answer?
If vedic is greater then the Free Will, then give the the lead for a better life. You have the answers...or not?

All I do is to say; YOU HAVE A CHOICE, You can take control of your life and try.
That is what I am missing from you "Astrologer", you have all an responsibility, because up true 4000 years you have got a unique position in the society , and that is (in my opinion) most thanks to  arranged marriages, who use the Astrologer to confirm that the couple suit together, and what time marriages shall occur, I am not sure it has led to much happier marriages then in the west though.

Again...this is just a discussion...read it...waste it...do what you will with it...I only use my Free Will to tell what I believe, and why I don't believe so much in yours (As micro control...in bigger view it function much better)

Well Raman ji with that kind of pre-determinism there is no point in practicing astrology or doing anything.

Its like saying we are robots and are moving according to the wish of our master.
I dont mind the concept and actually it leads to vairagya, but astrology has no place in a world of complete predeterminism.

Rhuto ji,

From your posts I perceive (I may be wrong) a fundamental confusion which I believe Rishiji also alluded to. FREE WILL as we are discussing here is to determine whether you are really free to will whatever you are willing.

To explain based on your eg. Assuming that I ask myself the question and stay in bed for 10 more minutes, I am still not sure that fate is not having the last laugh saying "See how I brought these two guys togethar in mystic board, made one to challenge the other and ensured that on day x he got up late by 10 minutes".

But, while we may not have a free will we still cant avoid willing. We are constrained to make decisions all the time.It is like you can forget to remember but not rememeber to forget ! It is during extreme circumstances that we find ourselves unable to decide and start attributing our limitations to fate.

Sahilji,

My post relating to karma was more to discuss rather than propound something. I have no doubts that I have no locus standi to propound anything.

Nevertheless I wanted to highlight the futility of using karma in astrology except perhaps by divyagnani like sage Gauthama. Karma as a philosophical concept is something that people have been using for ages.

As Rhutoji pointed out the fault may lie in the tendency to use astrology for micro details. Probably this was menat to be used to determine high level results. For e.g, does A who has 5 Billon dollars in bank account is happier than B with say 1 billion. Perhaps astrology will tell us wehther each of them is happy with whatever they have. The problem arises when we try to use astrology to say who is happier.

If hypothetically B wee to approach me as an astrologer saying "I have exactly the same natal chart as A. But he has 5 billion while I have just 1 billion, I will tell him that he should focus on his own happiness rather than cite karma as a plausible explanation.

CRS