Hi,

I am not contesting the fact whether there is free will or not; but was just talking and discussing what your Guruji said.

Out of:=
Janma-Mrityu (Birth-Death)
Laabh-Haani (Gains - Losses)
Yash-Apyash (Fame - Defame)............

You said:=
Character= influenced strongly by the above.

Courage, Morals, Ethics, behavior, Friendships, Enmities= very much dependant on the above

Dealing with success, dealing with failures....= similar to/strongly influenced by gains, losses, fame, defame.

Choosing to work hard or let the Pseudo-Fate dictate your life= choosing to work hard... Yes.    But whether you will or not is dependant on the class, texture of your palm. Whether you will get gains or not is dependant on dependant on palmistic astrological factors/ruled by destiny.


It is probably more important to believe in Karma than to believe in fate= Absolutely agreed with that we SHOULD BELIEVE in Karma


RishiRahul

P.S: How many of us discussing free will are qualified enough through age, experience, knowledge of philosophy and Divinatory Sciences, to confirm the extent of Free will in actuality.
If the above conditions are not met... W should just discuss... not confirm....... Or Am I Wrong!!?

If there was no free will, then we would not have this discussion.

It is your free will that deny to accept it, because your belief tells it don't exist, and you chose to explain your action with "theses" given by your belief. (said in general terms)

Since one transfer "the responsibility" (free will) from the Native to the Belief, the Native is easier to control true the Belief, with the damage it does to the Natives initiative, and create frustration which we easy can spot by reading the post here in the forum, and the many strange request.
It put a very big responsibility on those who will act as "Readers" to educate the Native about what is possible and what is not.
The Reader is the key element in this education, because the belief in Astrology has so strong footing in your tradition.

As said:
If free will not exist, Then can NEITHER this discussion exist, WITHOUT a Greater power want it, because then we would have no will of our own to produce these opposite thoughts.

You would have clear thoughts about what to do, but NEVER thoughts that differ from this main thought.
Life would be like living as a doll in a child's playroom, you was controlled and moved around, with nothing to say or do, that could interfere with the play, and since you had no thoughts of your own you would like a zombie be lead.

I will also copy and paste something I found :

Free will is all about the choices we make every day and how we choose to live our lives in the present. These factors, regardless of the composition of a birth chart, look to the daily placement of the planets and stars for astrological guidance, but every decision that you make throughout the day is part of a greater composition: that of your personal plan for spiritual and universal progression. By our own will, we decide who we want to be and what we want to accomplish.

The individual takes the initiative. This area of Karmic Astrology is a wide open plain of possibilities; regardless of who you are or your fate, your thinking and actions are free from improper immersion or restraint. Free will teaches us to know what's right and to set a code of ethics and behavior by which each of us, as individuals, can live comfortably.

For better or for worse, free will is representative of the karma we bring onto ourselves. The choices we make lead to goal choices as well. The difference between fate and free will is that the latter has unlimited possibilities; free will is all about our unrestrained choices. Our values and ethics mold what kind of person we decide to be and free will reflects our placement in the universe as freethinking entities. Scruples shape who we are; they are the set of morals that we've chosen for ourselves regarding how we act and how we think. Those elements of our individuality that orchestrate our belief system are the basis of our free will. Free will makes us selective and discriminating. It is this notion of Karmic Astrology that encourages us to take action.

Even if you simply lie in bed all day or in some way stop yourself from interacting with the world and making decisions, you are still setting your path by your own free will. By not acting you are making a free choice, and this is a decision you've chosen to live with. Free will is not only about taking action; it is the way you structure your life, a power which is always in your hands. Executing your free will brings your consciousness into play. Tuning out is still an action as the individual is still making a decision about the importance they give to matters in life.

Hi Rhuto,

My belief does not say that free will does not exist. Are you sure that I imply it? I do not believe in influencing others vehemently to my thoughts. My thoughts could be incorrect too, like any others could be too.

You quoted only a part of the thread which I made. The other part was in response to what Arian's Guru said. I am trying to stick to logic and trying to discuss it part by part; So that a/best perception is reached.

Part by part discussions help to arrive at a Proper perception.

Also, the Free Will understood by your Perception may be different from others= Result being talking in cross purposes.

You say: 'It is your free will that deny to accept it'= Accept what? I did not deny Free Will at all, as I said before.

You say:=
'Since one transfer "the responsibility" (free will) from the Native to the Belief, the Native is easier to control true the Belief, with the damage it does to the Natives initiative, and create frustration which we easy can spot by reading the post here in the forum, and the many strange request.
It put a very big responsibility on those who will act as "Readers" to educate the Native about what is possible and what is not.
The Reader is the key element in this education, because the belief in Astrology has so strong footing in your tradition.'=

I was trying to discuss what I feel is true.... and Remember that Vedic Literature (a derivative is Vedic astrology) is a very rich Literature... More a Way of Life than Religion..about which many are not aware of. and that I would hate distorting it.  

One cannot equate responsibility with free will. No one can deny others free Will. One can try to control belief, but not destiny, even Free Will.

Since this is thread is attracting sharp reactions, I am off controversies/this thread.


RishiRahul

If you feel offended by my post, then I apologize from my heart...that has never been my goal...maybe it comes out that way because we both are none English, and we have different ways to see thing.

You said I only took a clip from your post, that is right, but in this clip you asked if Free will really existed, if free will exist, then the extend of it, is of no value in this discussion, because that is up to the Native and his/her use of it, plus different societies rules and so on.

The fact that we have free will, are not the same that we can do what we will, we are bound by rules and laws, we interact with other who also have free will, our workplace has it's rules and so on, and what we in the end manage is a combination of it all....but our motor is our free will...it is here you collect your initiative, the will to go on even in the darkest of time, or chose to stay inactive and wait for faith to fix everything for you.

Again...sorry..never attend to offend any.

Dear RR ji,
totally respect your rationale for what you said above...
however, I am sure if there was such a person who was qualified enough owing to his age(although I don't believe age is a factor at all), experience, knowledge of philosophy and Divinatory Sciences, a lot many people would still not care enough to believe him, and that is exactly what my point is.

You see, everybody on the planet is meant to follow his own path towards spirituality, knowledge, wisdom, power or perhaps whatever he wants to attain in life, and everybody must start somewhere.

BELIEFS keep on changing, and its okay, there is nothing wrong with that, infact that is how you grow in life. However,  it is really important to be open minded . It is extremely important to know that you can't know everything.

It is okay to start in life with what you believe in, it can be what your guru tells you or what you respective religion teaches you. Once you are following your religion or your guru, it is important to keep an open mind to grow in life like I said before. But but but, how can one even walk in life if he doesn't know what to believe and what not to believe. How can one walk without putting a foot forward.... you see you have to choose and put a foot forward or you just cant walk.

In this particular case, this is what my religion teaches me, this is what my guruji taught me and this is what my antar-mann keeps on repeating, We've always got a choice....
peace
sahil