Hello members,
For quite a while, i've been a silent spectator on this forum and i'm very impressed by the amount of interactivity that takes place here. Astrology has always fascinated me a lot especially vedic astrology. So far, i have covered only the basics and am eager to learn more. But i have a few doubts and i hope this is right section to post it in. My doubt is concerning debilitated or neecham planets. Why is it that in some charts, debilitated planets do so much good even when they have no strength with respect to shadbala and it's further sub-categories? Take President Obama for example, i.e if his birth data is anywhere accurate and anything to go by. If you check his chart with birth-time 19:24(most widely used) even though jupiter/guru is neecham with low shadbala/average ashtakavargha it has still managed to grant him enormous success and throughout this entire mahadasa his stature just kept rising. From another angle, most would argue what i have said above with two points :-
i. guru is neecham and retrograde in rasi chart and therefore akin to exaltation
ii. guru is in it's own house in navamsa.

What i feel is that while a planets dignity(exalted/debilitated/own/retrograde) only adds/negates to its quality, the quantity is separately governed by other factors such as shadbala/ashtakavargha/bhava-bala/etc. Am i right to say this?

But if so, then how does it explain his rise to power? A low shadbala(low digbala too) couldn't possibly account for his rise to President of USA, even if the world unanimously agrees that he has "inherited a mess". Moreover, common consensus amongst astrologers is that Obama's guru has to be neecham in a kendra. If so then guru owns a dusthana/upachayas with both birth-times(13:24 & 19:24) which would mean that the neechabangaraja yogas are nullified by virtue of guru's ownership, according to classical texts.

If anyone can correct/enlighten me then i would appreciate a lot for i am totally confused with this scenario  

Hi,

A very pertinent query from your side.

Planets for political success are mainly Saturn and Rahu, ans Sani is in own house, cancalling the debilitation of Jupiter, thus making Jupiter very potent.

I had once chanced to see a very good view of O'bama's palm in a book's front page. It was a big sized hard cover book, and I saw it last fortnight.

His palm had a very very significant Jupiter... an extremely self confident head line healthily unattached from the life line signifying a strong and healthy self confidence and poise. His heart line was a bit high in the hand, but a very healthy one.

All these showing a healthy mind and heart and Jupiter too.

I have seen this in the palms of natives having Jupiter Saturn conjunction in Capricorn and have always found a strong Saturn and Jupiter mounts in the right ( workable palms).

Thus Obama has a very good Jupiter adding wisdom to the natives nature.

Such debilitated Jupiters have the strength to LIFT natives that even exalted Jupiters fail. Exalted Jupiters are already strong, so the lifting powers may be more expected than the earlier case..... In short, a BRILLIANT palm.

You will note that I give fully rounded predictions taking the palm and birth chart both. As the palm gives out the compressed, but clear picture, which is more difficult from the birthchart; while a birth chat can give the very fine details and environmental factors vividly.
What I mean to say is he has a brilliant palm. Astrology has many factors to play with to arrive at actual facts.. shadbala, ashtavarga etc etc so it becomes difficult

Again Rahu in the 9th. house of luck, though in maankaraka sthana denotes a powerful Rahu influence.

Again the exalted Mercury aspecting his lagna with moon shows his intellect, which may seem not very stereotyped for the usual natives.

Such a apparently weak Mars has the canceling debilitation aspect of Sani. Such Mars natives feel that they would never settle down and have hectic lives but.. the canceling effect is there......!

Mars Venus, moon, mercury having luni solar yogas is also a plus. Add to this the biporoth Rajayoga.

I hope I have answered your questions.


RishiRahul

P.S: None of these relate to future predictions about his political life getting affected. Such comments from my side is not possible unless a good expanded look at this right hand is given.... and also we would be out of topic.

But what you've said above only explains the character that jupiter imparts in Obama and not the luck factor that helped him. I doubt if it was his "pristine" character alone that got him elected as the President. In my experience most people possess some sort of solar yogas. Jupiter is also weak digbala wise. Even the vipareetha rajayoga isn't that strong as it only involves a dusthana lord debilitated in a kendra. If you go by the popular birthtimes, he has been on the rise constantly throughout his entire Jupiter Mahadasha without taking a tumble even once, which i feel is very uncharacteristic of a debilitated planet that is neither a temporal nor a functional benefic. I understand your cautiousness in addressing charts with debilitated planets but when most of the negative factors outweigh the positives, wouldn't you also agree with me when i say something is terribly amiss?

(1)All or Most debilitated Jupiter/planets are expected to be weak in Shadbala. Isnt it?

(2)Also there are many/umpteen variables one has to play or toy with in Astrology too.

(3)The birthtime may not be very accurate.

Due to the above 3 reasons= giving future predictions or attempting to predict specifically would not be an easy/responsible task, especially in cases of political horoscopes where innacurate birthtimes are often there and we are unble to use divisional charts satisfactorily at all.

Solar yoga is one thing and there are so many factors in O'Bama's (supposed) chart, but there are many solar and lunar yogas involving 4 planets + panchamahapurusha yoga involving tenth lord + cancellation of debilitations and neechabhanga Rajayogas involving 3 planets(sani, mamgal and guru) + a viporith rajayoga +a few other rajayogas...... certainly rendering this chart brilliant to begin with at least.

Jupiter, though debilitated to begin with, is involved in cancellation of debilitation+guru mangal yogas and yoga for power and authority.

The point you missed out about Jupiter is== I have experienced that if debilitated Jupiter is conjunct Saturn, then Jupiter becomes strong; as I have noted it to be so in palms of many (shadbala is one major part of strength) such cases.

And why is Jupiter not a functional benefic? Just because it has kendradhi patya dosha?

Which means cancellation of delitation by conjunct Saturn(potentented in this case by other good Jupiterian yogas) has a lifting effect on it.



Realise... such a Jupiter... lifting.... O'bama's Jupiter Dasa.

I am not discounting what you said about Jupiter. but facts are facts.. just like statistics are.


RishiRahul

About your theory on debilitated jupiter conjunct saturn, here is a chart of a businessman who has been struggling with his business ever since his jupiter mahadasha started.
D.O.B - June 29, 1961
T.O.B - 09:15 AM
P.O.B - Donets'k, Ukraine

He too has a debilitated jupiter conjunct saturn but he has struggled a lot in Ju/Ju period while Ju/Sa has so far been relatively better but by no means uplifting in any way.
Can you analyse the chart and tell me why jupiter is so troublesome here?