Namastey To all,


When i began learning Vedic astrology, I understood that the basic brick with which one begins is BIRTH TIME.

Getting to know someone's birth time is always tricky as  none are sure of it and also there are various definitions to the Birth Time.


Lately a trend (may still be setting in) for  people in India is to consult the astrologers and try to time the baby, which is easily fulfilled by Doctor through Caesarean. (perhaps it is  easy/convinient for a Dr too,  he need not be awake incase of late night deliveries). This timed /staged delivery may follow one the definitions  of birth time, but  does it follow  the law of nature?

Through this post i humbly want to know  is this not tampering the child's Karma (selecting childern of good karma.. If i may say).

Or is  it possible to control child birth in turn his Future /karma by controlling his/her birth time using (or mis-using) the blessing called caesarean?

Are the astrologers truly authorized to direct/control some one's Karma  ? (esp before birth )


Warmly
Asro

The astrologers are fully authorised to try time birth time as we humans try to time our actions.

Try we must and do as that is our duty/karma/free will.

The result is the Baby born in this case. But when? Is it when we tried to time it. Maybe the time was not kept some how, maybe the operation time was deferred somehow, maybe the doctor could not time it exactly, or it was timed precisely!

All Karma and its parts. Let us deny or not.

RishiRahul

Let me tell you the myth about giving birth by cesarean sections at the planned time. I know identical twins born at the same hour just 3 minutes apart with their destiny is also wide apart- one in USA,  an environmental engineer where as his twin lives in India, an Ayurvedic doctor. One married to girl of his choice, while other married as per their parent wish. If you look at the d-1 and d-9 chart you don't  see any difference.
I happened to read one of the most interesting and mind boggling book about ancient vedic astrology regarding naadi shastra- book called "Deva Keralam" , in which reverend author late Mr. R Santhan opened my eyes. On page 8, he mentioned not just nadiamsa , but ayanmsa and ephemeris to cast the horoscope is also important.
Nadiamsa divide entire space of 360 deg of zodiac sign into 1800 nadiamsas. Not only that, they divide each nadiamsa in to four kalas called Vipra, Kshatriya, Vaisaya and Soodra.It has nothing to do with the caste system prevailing in olden days, but meant for attainment of perfection in prediction. Thus, dividing entire zodiac in to 7200 minor segments, each of 3' arc. It must be noted here that these divisions are unequal; smallest Nadimsa is 1 minute 40 seconds, while largest one is is 30' minutes 00'' seconds. (It is not hour, minute and seconds here, it is degree, minutes and seconds). The ascendant nadiamsa can be as little as 7" seconds' where as  can be as bigger as 2' minutes' to traverse largest nadiamsa. Hence, Time of birth must be absolutely accurate to the degree of 7' seconds to the extent of two minutes. On the top of that, each native future is difference whether native is born on top half of the nadiamsa or later part of nadiamsa. Mind well, we need to take in account other ayanamsa too, like Navamsa, Sapthamsa and shashtiamsa that can change also. As you can visualize, results can be drastically varied just by little variation in minutes or seconds.
Talking about planet, Moon is fastest planet as far as astrology is concerned and just to traverse 1' minute, it will take 5 minutes minimum to 7.2 minutes maximum.
Which ephemeris to use Lahiri or some other? because, even small difference of minus or plus 2' degree of arc can place planet in different navamsa and predict exactly opposite result!
Do you really think one has  capacity and capability to decide the c-section time based on all this minute detail just to give birth to some  super human?    

Greetings and brilliant posting! Right down to arc seconds as they are called to separate the angles from KAAL

I read/heard somewhere that Parashara had this ability and hence emerged the story of Matsyagandha in a boat, an available vessel. It could be one of those allegories of course. Also heard at one time that births were delayed or hastened/induced (possible through modern pharmaceuticals) but treat it as anecdotal at best.

Your example where 3 minutes made such a huge difference (without much data shared) is intriguing and eye-catching (that purpose served by your message ?  -- was interesting but where do we as a jyotish community go from there, given no data?

What about the situation where the baby takes the first breath while in the birth canal (leading to foetal distress syndrome I believe it is called!) but does not get born for another two to three minutes? What would YOU take as the birthtime in that case?

RR

While interacting with a mother who had caesarian deliveries of her twins, an interesting trivia (or maybe not so trivial!) emerged.

When twins (or other multiple births) are delivered, the birth order changes!

In a 'normal' delivery, the one lined up closer to the birthcanal would have been born first and would be the elder brother or sister. But if the delivery is through a c-section, the one that was behind would be delivered first while the 'natural' eldest sibling will be delivered the last!

What a can of worms have we opened (no PUN or disrespect intended!) SHEESH!

RR

<PS: The relevance of the above, in case you are wondering, has to do with the 11-1-3 approach sometimes considered when considering the multiple birth siblings (elder, younger etc). Of course this would be irrelevant if one is using finer divisions, given that the birth time is accurately recorded!