[quote="RishiRahul"][quote="projenator"]


RishiRahulji,
                I am sorry but I wanted to point out that i don't KNOW you as a "professional jyotishi". I know you as the moderator of vedic astrology section of mystic board forum who generously takes time out of his busy schedule and not only responds to postings but also gives advice for free to those who are trying to pinch a free reading on their money making prospects and/or relationship with the opposite sex (nothing wrong with that, but once they realize it works, they would rather get busy with making money or their partner than be grateful to the jyotishi/jyotish who gave them some hope or encouragement to rise from the dust, just wanted to clarify, sadly that's how the world works in kaliyuga).

I cannot help point out the assumptions made in your following statement.

"You saw and believed the Guru, but chose some one in the Gurukul without knowing much about him.... of course this is one type of example."

I once again (albeit audaciously) take the liberty of pointing out that the guru never cared to respond to me in spite of my best efforts and the guru himself has recommended the list of students publicly on his website, out of which I picked the most experienced one with the best educational qualifications, a retired officer from the administrative service. Not only that, he has a few books to his credit and his guru sings paeans about all the research he did with this student of his. At this point, I rest my case.

As part of this discussion, an excerpt from a recent article by K N Rao follows.

"My guruji’s advice to me was not to give up astrology as early as 1975 when I was getting disgusted with people wanting to see the fulfilment all their worldly wishes whatever their desires and karmas. That is the bane of the modern consumerist India more because of which fraudulent astrologers are multiplying. But my guruji’s advice was that one good prediction which appears unlikely at the time it is given is enough for an intelligent person to retain his or her belief in the supernormal. It also strengthens belief in the great astrological tradition of India---the great living tradition.'

It is indeed true, the difference between the expectations of a reading seeker who grew up in India (regardless of current residence) and one who was not. The expectation, focus on a particular sector in life, worldly vs spiritual or solution vs insight all are pretty different.

Sorry for the long quote that follows (read only the 2nd and 3rd para if you are busy or only mildly interested!):

"...Predicting events had always been a difficult venture for most astrologers, regardless of the school that they belonged to. As is often pointed out by frustrated students of astrology, it is a lot easier to apply 20/20 hindsight and figure out the 'trigger' for a given event. In a priori analyses, one is often faced with too many 'triggers', which makes it difficult and even confusing to hone in on the meaningful one/s and describe what the event would be and when it might take place. There is obviously less 'pressure' for adopting such a discriminating approach when qualitative interpretation is the only goal. It is hardly surprising that many astrologers tend to shy away from predicting events and a fair number of those that do venture, risk getting disenchanted and frustrated. Performance can really vary in this hallway of astrology. The ground rules that work in different hands can vary considerably, there being no sure-fire, cookbook technique that always works. Past performances are often not recorded in a detailed manner and not easily available for objective scrutiny. A researcher's nightmare, in other words!

Anecdotally, it has been the common view in the west that Jyotish, the Indian vedic system of astrology is exclusively an event-oriented approach. Unfortunately, this is a misleading and mistaken perception. Practitioners of jyotish, especially those who have moved into it from a primarily western tropical perspective, on discovering a plethora of techniques for timing of events, such as the many forms of dashas or progressions, multiple means of determining transit influences, etc., understandably, tend to focus on those heavily. Even in its native home, jyotish is practiced in a social environment where pressures of daily existence and looming economical concerns make predictability of events and conditions seem more important. With economic concerns a common issue, the Indian (and now elsewhere too!) client can hardly be faulted for paying less attention to spiritual growth or in not trying to strengthen his/her psychological Achilles' heels first, before asking questions such as, "Will I get this contract or not?" or "When will my daughter get married?". The sociocultural differences being what they are, often, issues that seem primary to those growing in technologically advanced societies are hard to relate to by those living the reality of the third world. The reverse also holds true.

But, just because we utilize a Swiss army knife for opening cans all the time, the Swiss army knife cannot be called a can opener. Any astrological approach can be labeled a certain way based on its popular usage, but it is a shame to not realize that it has a wider spectrum of applicability. All astrology utilizes symbolism at its very basis and while one can attempt to define the rational nature of the symbolic links, there is a certain amount of irrationality or at the very least a linear logical gap between the symbol and what it is taken to represent. By itself, this does not invalidate the symbolism or reduce the value of the symbol in using it to describe an apparently unrelated phenomenon or attribute. Given that, no form of astrology is truly superior to another. Much time has been wasted by astrologers in trying to hold one’s flag up or in trying to push the other flags down. Or in carving a neo-niche out of a subset of existing approaches, with further development of an existing theme.

From the vedic astrological perspective, once the religious and arcane metaphors that are often overly literally employed by many modern savants and purveyors of jyotish are stripped away, we see a system that is capable of tackling the human experience from all perspectives. It certainly can be approached as a psychological tool or aid, for analyzing the psychological fabric of nativities, their motivations and behaviors, their perceptions and expressions, responses and reactions. It can also be utilized for predicting events, trends and tendencies.
"

[quote="projenator"]...well RR, I let you do the talking then and I the listening. Keep'em coming[/quote]



But, Proj, that would be going backwards!
Or forward in the retrograde framework! I suppose!!

It is not a sin to talk -- as long as the talker makes sure that he listens to the talk! When the perception and PROJection become one and simultaneous continuum -- experience and reality become one!

[quote="projenator"][quote="RishiRahul"]


Hi Proj,

Still not clear. I meant to talk about your statement.." "Most professional jyotishis treat you just another of those and are never willing to put in the extra effort to fine tune their reading".

Then 'you' obviously refers to me, RishiRahul.... which means that I am never willing to put in the extra effort to fine tune their(that is my) reading?

Well, I did not know that Sri K.N.Rao ji had referred the astrologer to you, directly or indirectly to you.... He was certainly a great man.. so I reserve my comments, as, certainly, I am not great, and still a student.

Hope you understand.

RishiRahul