There are four layers to the realization some call jyotish-mati.
*Knowing* through jyotish.

The first level is as an infant! The infant is pathologically hungry but instinctively knows and roots for what really feeds and sustains him! Or so he thinks or intuits for he is a bundle of instincts focused on survival!

The second level is of the rambunctious teenager who kind of knows that even if he is kicked out of the house, he has enough skills to feed and look after himself!! He has acquired enough lingo and some concepts too And he has learned how to piss off rigid old conservative fellers!

The third level is the most dangerous! One knows enough to figure out things, rightly or wrongly and has the ability to "make it all work most times", like the grihasta in our worldly REALity who are sure that they know it all and it is their way or the highway! Often it is their children who see that first hand when they are being plunged into careers of their parents' choosing or worse, arranged marriages (Happy Valentine's Day! Which I saw on the TV created major riot in India, for it is NOT KOSHER!)

The fourth (TURYA) level? I do not know it directly but *LOST HORIZONS* where Shangrila was first described or rather *captured* by JHilton was close! Hopefully some erudite ones here would lead us to that understanding, or even realization!

And each of these levels, perhaps, run simultaneously?
And in each level there are three different approaches depending on the worldview of the seeker?
We need all of them to complete the bits and pieces!

Votive

[quote="Votive"][quote="rohiniranjan"]There are four layers to the realization some call jyotish-mati.
*Knowing* through jyotish.

The first level is as an infant! The infant is pathologically hungry but instinctively knows and roots for what really feeds and sustains him! Or so he thinks or intuits for he is a bundle of instincts focused on survival!

The second level is of the rambunctious teenager who kind of knows that even if he is kicked out of the house, he has enough skills to feed and look after himself!! He has acquired enough lingo and some concepts too And he has learned how to piss off rigid old conservative fellers!

The third level is the most dangerous! One knows enough to figure out things, rightly or wrongly and has the ability to "make it all work most times", like the grihasta in our worldly REALity who are sure that they know it all and it is their way or the highway! Often it is their children who see that first hand when they are being plunged into careers of their parents' choosing or worse, arranged marriages (Happy Valentine's Day! Which I saw on the TV created major riot in India, for it is NOT KOSHER!)

The fourth (TURYA) level? I do not know it directly but *LOST HORIZONS* where Shangrila was first described or rather *captured* by JHilton was close! Hopefully some erudite ones here would lead us to that understanding, or even realization![/quote]

And each of these levels, perhaps, run simultaneously?
And in each level there are three different approaches depending on the worldview of the seeker?
We need all of them to complete the bits and pieces!

Votive[/quote]

Hence Dreshkaanaas you return to I suppose? Which you never left (I know!).

I hope the teenagers are listening for they will not remain so forever! The Tritiyaas are lost causes already!

the infant is tamas, the teenager is rajas, the fourth state is Sattwa.

How would one classify the grihastha in the trinal system? Surely the most 'dangerous' one must be categorized, classified -- even thumb-printed and DNA-classified in advance before they make trouble!

Must be the proactive 'chowkidaar' in me that springs alive from time to time! Sorry!! Their crime is not that serious I suppose! Or was it??

Dear Poster,

Jyotish can get scary or at least hairy when it gets personal!

By that I do not mean being insulted or adored on impersonal internet forums/fora by essentially *strangers* even the ones who are closer in many-a-sense than a brother or sister would if they were born to the same lady you call your mother!

It became real for me when a jyotishi confided once! He was doing his thing when his sister-in-law who was very dear and supportive of his jyotish etc called one afternoon and mentioned that his very first niece, her first daughter, the first child of the clan was on life support system in a foreign land. She wanted astrological advice. The Jyotishi, shaken to his core, promised he would call back in a few minutes.

The jyotishi looked at few dashas and particularly Yogini and called back and said that the young woman would improve in the next three days.

His sister-in-law was much assured since she had faith in astrology and her devar and it gave her the motivation and positive OOMPH to arrange the travel to take her ailing husband overseas to visit their daughter with much positivity in her heart and soul.

Later on it was conveyed that another uncle of the young lady who had a tantrik guru who was known to produce mithai out of thin air and other miracles had also independently made the same prediction that the girl would improve in 3 days.

The predictions came true.

The jyotishi uncle still practices astrology out of SHEER GRATITUDE since that formative moment and has not produced even a single miracle like creating halwa out of thin air! Or desirous of any such magic to come to his door, ever!

Someday, I would like to bring him here if he agrees and introduce him to you all friends, and family ...

Nice to meet individuals who have lived and benefitted from astrology like that...

Maybe that is as close to a miracle that I want to be, in my lifetime!

I plead guilty, it is not easy to get out of the trinal influences for their tread marks heavily and pans much larger time spans perhaps!

Actually, I would say that the fourth state being Brahmin is that stage of giving and yet contains the rajasic, the fixed and the mutable.
The third level than those 'dangerous' ones you maintain and amongst them all the trinal influences too. As with the rebellious teens and the hungry infants.
As you said, the zodiac gets complete once you multiply the trines with chaturya!

votive