I won't go into which supercedes whom since that can get a bit ugly but vedic wisdom is different from western science and westernization in general. In a westernized illusory lifestyle in this world of maya, spirituality can be looked upon as failure, when moksha or liberation should be ultimate goal. Westernization for one, encourages you to relish the materialistic world one lives in and defines life's success in a similar way. People who identify too much with the illusory materialistic world can find such thought processes challenging and can be ambivalent at best in their realization.

[quote="projenator"]To be honest with you, I have nothing against western sciences, astrologies, mannerisms since I myself have been primarily schooled in them until recently, when I decided to turn my attention towards indian/vedic systems. It was primarily the influence of K N Rao's writings which prompted me to do so.
My first astrology books were also Linda goodman's way back in high school. Having lived in the west and been brought up in convent schools right from childhood and then higher education in US, I have observed consistently their superior presentation in every aspect of life, be it education, mannerisms and even their sex lives. I completely agree that western astrology as presented by successive generations is neater and far easier to grasp. On the contrary, the indian culture discourages presenting and sharing of thoughts and ideas, which makes vedic astrology/jyotish look a little fishy and confusing with thousands of contrasting opinions and ideas. Just a little example, in K N Rao's most basic book on astrology, in one of the case studies, he mentions a tula lagna native with jupiter in the eighth house should do yoga. He leaves it there and the reader is left clueless about the logic of his statement. I have observed this consistently in K N Rao's analysis on his website. He says that he tries to keep things as simplistic as possible and in his attempt to do so, he does not dwell on his analysis deeply, thereby leaving the thoughtful reader unsatisfied with the depth of his logic. From reading such literature, i feel an expectation from these great astrology researchers of india that everyone take their word at face value, which I am a little skeptical about, albeit in a healthy way. Jyotish requires deep meditation and a superficial approach taking principles literally can do more harm than good in the long run. My experience with vedic wisdom is its more about feeling by deeply meditating on it and it will take too many words to explain everything deeply. That being said and acknowledged, this very nature of vedic wisdom makes presentation of it challenging and cumbersome. It is left to the reader's curiosity and his hunger to search for the elusive missing links.[/quote]

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Dear Proj,

I think you are being a bit harsh on Mr. K.N. Rao! Some years ago, I had the opportunity to participate on a jyotish list where KN Rao was a daily participant. He shared with us a lot of his personal experiences and views about astrology, astrologers and some of the negativities that he observed in Indian astrology scene and also abroad. Plagiarism, unsubstantiated claims, bravado and many similar things were mentioned. Having been away from the Indian scene for a long time, I am not sure how things are going on these days but his sharings rang a familiar note from the 60s and 70s which I had directly experienced. Seems like things have remained the same.

I notice that amongst the younger generations there almost seems an expressed sense that they should be spoon-fed and given everything in neat parcels. I suppose that they have a point. Given the time and day of rampant commercialism that they grew up in they see jyotish as a purchasable commodity. If they paid fifty rupees for a book, they want it to be of more value than they think they are getting. Nd they do nt wnt 2 mak t' xtra efrt 2 wrk xtr' 2 gt wut wz mnt 2 B convy'd by authr!

I consdr mslf lky becoz ven I wz lrnng *lgy fu bks exstd & V n'dd 2 brn D mi'nt oil a lot! <GOD! This is so painful to writ lik dis! How do some of you kids do this so easily! Like watch TV, listening to MP3 music, being on the computer chatting with friends on MSN, doing homework and getting 90+% marks all simultaneously!).

You are hilarious, RR. Now don't you try to write in that cheesy style, which has become so popular amongst the youth in the more progressive indian cities where anything and everything american is adored and religiously followed.  I was very surprised to find many indian twenty year old say "ma" instead of "my".

I did not mean to be disrespectful of K N Rao. I respect him a lot for all he has done. I just wish he wrote more analysis than constantly berating the indian astrology scene at least once in every page of his books. I cannot agree more with it but will things get better by repeatedly mentioning them. I think this is SOMEWHAT true in any professional arena leave alone astrology, are auto mechanics, doctors, lawyers, even in North America any better ? Maybe a trifle. When I say doctors or healthcare system in general, don't you start ranting and raving about mayo clinic, not every hospital in US is mayo clinic. In a recent study, an american doctor, on average was graded no better than a "C" on his/her performance. I have considerable experience in the area of physician performance and it definitely leaves a lot to be desired.

[quote="projenator"]You are hilarious, RR. Now don't you try to write in that cheesy style, which has become so popular amongst the youth in the more progressive indian cities where anything and everything american is adored and religiously followed.  I was very surprised to find many indian twenty year old say "ma" instead of "my".

I did not mean to be disrespectful of K N Rao. I respect him a lot for all he has done. I just wish he wrote more analysis than constantly berating the indian astrology scene at least once in every page of his books. I cannot agree more with it but will things get better by repeatedly mentioning them. I think this is SOMEWHAT true in any professional arena leave alone astrology, are auto mechanics, doctors, lawyers, even in North America any better ? Maybe a trifle. When I say doctors or healthcare system in general, don't you start ranting and raving about mayo clinic, not every hospital in US is mayo clinic. In a recent study, an american doctor, on average was graded no better than a "C" on his/her performance. I have considerable experience in the area of physician performance and it definitely leaves a lot to be desired.[/quote]

Proj,

Let us just say that it is not a perfect world
Even before Mr. Rao, this practice of critiquing others was seen in the astrological writings domain. In many of the 'columns' and commentaries that appeared in The Astrological Magazine (60-80s) there were scathing articles against rationalists, journalists, scientists some of which were a bit too harsh. Same trend in other magazines (in Hindi and English) some of which are still alive and in circulation (Raman's Astrological Magazine has recently stopped publishing, as you perhaps know). What is unique about Rao is his narrative style and that the critiquing appears in his books which generally tend to be very short (pocket books as the sized was called because it fit in a trouser pocket) and hence the negative comments kind of stand out

His book on enigmas in astrology is good stuff and also the book on advanced methods compiled by his serious research students and edited by KNR. A volume II was announced but I have not seen it out yet.

Charak used to publish a magazine which had pretty solid research data. Rao's Journal of Astrology I have heard has some good stuff too, though I am going on hearsay there and not seen it myself.

Bottomline: we get what we get and keep what seems to work and go on...

RR,
      Seriously i should take that back, its just out of irritation i said it. It will be being ungrateful to KNR if I say that. My first book and all the initial stuff on astrology I read was by him, so you can say he initiated me into it. I enjoy reading his analysis on his website, the way he backs up his vimshottari dasa findings with chara always and sometimes yogini etc. is something I want to seriously incorporate in my approach. I wish to meet him or talk with him some day but that may not happen realistically. He has secluded himself from the public and his students have taken over. I seriously think, after BVR, we owe it to him for spreading the good word about jyotish including fighting a case single handedly with ailing health conditions in the supreme court. I regularly follow his website and plan to buy more books from his stable just to contribute towards the great work he has done. There's a franchise out of New Jersey selling his books these days. They are pretty reliable although they take their own time (usually at least a month) to deliver your order. I will send you the link to the FINER TECHNIQUES OF ASTROLOGICAL PREDICTION volume 2, which I guess is the one you are looking for. Recently M S Mehta, a retired IFS officer, who is one of his very senior students has come out with ANALYSING HOROSCOPE THROUGH MODERN TECHNIQUES, under his guidance.

hope that helps.