[quote="projenator"]In fact, the first para is the one which was the serious part, a very true realization, which one can only realize if he thinks deeply about it rather than read all the literature available and busy themselves with applying it.

"the *maya* in jyotish is this "logical" part! Because the way it is constructed, jyotish is an aankh micholi of logic and paralogic! Individuals have sometimes gotten angry and bitter at me because I disrupt their logical dream and who like the person that disturbs one's slumber?"

the rest, especially the last couple sentences were funny to which i was responding

Actually I kind of realized this when I thought deeply about the ninth house and the ninth being twelfth from the tenth. Now ninth as we all know is the bhagyasthan but what is bhagya ? and if the bhagya is strong why would someone's societal status be diminished due to it ? In fact, what i feel needs to be very deeply understood is the meaning of the bhavas and try to correlate that with reality, not necessarily find logic in it as you would in modern day science because real life is not always logical. If you always have done good karma and therefore bhagyaban (lucky by 9th house interpretation) doesn't necessarily mean you will have a great status in society or a good career. People with great status in society haven't always had good karma which is so illogical and unfair but that's how real life is. Now jyotish is trying to model real human lives and its interaction with the society, both of which has an illusory component and a real component and IT'S NOT LOGICAL. Therefore, part of jyotish has to be intuitive, art or whichever way you put it, anything more than science and logic. In fact if you go to the heights of modern day science, there is always an "art" component to it, be it designing a chip layout or predicting future value of a company. Figuring the "art" component requires a holistic view (remember my first email to you), intuition (jyotismati nadi as K N Rao would call it). Off course some of this can be gained by experience and having done it repeatedly with great dedication but there will always be a component shaky and still to be figured out.  It will be like a mirage, the more you feel closer to it, the farther it goes. Therefore, reading a lot of principles and trying to apply them can get you at most to the graduate level but not Phd and beyond. The ability to take a holistic view and sum it all up can partly be achieved by experience or won't be achieved at all in one's lifetime and that part is what differentiates a great astrologer from a good astrologer.  In high school or college, all problems seem to have one correct answer but as you progress higher, it's more about possibilities and there's no one correct answer and trying to find one would be illusory at best.

I always keep a few basic principles in mind, one of them is the recurrence principle which you always point out, instead of getting biased by one exaltation or debilitation or combustion, try to see whether that theme reverbates through the chart including the divisional charts.  Back to the holistic view point.
One more thing I am striving to do is to do a broad skim of all the available literature so that I can use them effectively to back up one particular finding and then form a conclusion.

But it's a long long journey........... and I realize that fully well.

Thanks for the setting the right tone, I appreciate that.[/quote]



Dear Proj and anyone else reading this diatribe,

There was nothing "funny" in my sharing trust me! Even if I am laughing now

I share with you since you asked sincerely, I believe, what I received back in 1993:

************************************************
THE TURNING POINT
************************************************

Dying with anticipation
as I grip my cramping soul.
The silence of waiting
squeezes the breath
out of my lungs so

I feel the immense pressure
of emptiness within me
as a drowning person
tries to keep the water out
with what breath inside to be found, breath that isn't there

A raging fury, at no one but m'self
I wish this sickening claustrophobia
takes the shape of my hands.
I could then relieve this agony
that crushes my writhing soul

While I try to sound so gentle
and accepting of what I bear
a storm rages within me, I see blackness of despair
a storm that shreds my insides
as I grapple at  fading strains of joy.

You may never get to see these
festering wounds that cover my heart
the pain that giant claws make
ripping methodically at
every skein of bliss I ever had

This emptiness does not scare me
can a pain be worse than what now I have?
Throbbing eyeballs sore with crying
weep no more but watch vacuously
while I hear this gut-wrenching wail within.

You say I am sweet and so very gentle
that I was precious and remain so always shall.
What then causes this pain in me,
why must I be bundled up in this distress?
When I yearn for healing my tattered soul.

I must refuse to accept this karma
I need to be free of this bind
When I do not understand the chains
Why must I accept these as given
I refuse to accept this self-proclaimed guilt

Let the Keeper of time come and face me
Let me hear what He has to say
I shall victimized be no more
for what I do not really sense is mine alone
If together We are in this, why are there no tears in Your eyes?
************************************************


Pay attention to the CASE!

[quote="projenator"]
...when I thought deeply about the ninth house and the ninth being twelfth from the tenth.

...

In fact, what i feel needs to be very deeply understood is the meaning of the bhavas and try to correlate that with reality, not necessarily find logic in it as you would in modern day science ...[/quote]


Eighth house is taken as a negative house since it is taken as the house of death by some reckonings and evil and yet it is considered by some as the house of windfalls and inheritence and winnings in legal battles (certain conditions!)

It is the house that contains the primordial life force known as kundalini.

Then we read that it is the house of mangalya in a woman's chart! Obviously going back to those days when only through the presence of her husband may a woman live!

The 8th house is the house of longevity and not death! And the 8th therefrom, namely the 3rd is a similarly so by the bhavat-bhavam principle. And it makes sense since the loss or vyaya houses from these two houses representing longevity (lifespan), namely, the 2nd and 7th are well known and accepted as maraka bhavas! Right?

The tenth is the house named as karma, not fame or success if you pay attention! It can lead to fame and success but primarily named KARMA, simply! Nothing else!

Notice that this universally coveted X house is place in the 8th from the 3rd house, the house of efforts, purushartha!

Unless lagna (I) materializes, is born, longevity (VIII) is meaningless!
Correct?
Unless purushartha/personal efforts materialize, the 8th therefrom (X) has little chance of meaningful fructification.

Unless there is a marriage (VII), its mangalya-sustenance = family (II) 8th from it makes little sense.

Tread carefully because this is exactly what can lead to trouble as I have pointed out earlier! And have suggested the antidote too -- unless you thought that was funny too