Thank you Dada. I sincerely wish/hope too they follow your words.

RishiRahul

[quote="RishiRahul"]Thank you Dada. I sincerely wish/hope too they follow your words.

RishiRahul[/quote]


Yes Rishi bhai -- the *maya* in jyotish is this "logical" part! Because the way it is constructed, jyotish is an aankh micholi of logic and paralogic! Individuals have sometimes gotten angry and bitter at me because I disrupt their logical dream and who like the person that disturbs one's slumber?

There was a time many years ago when i truly started doing astrology after being rather frustrated and disillusioned by what appears in the body of jyotish literature, ancient and new (obviously only what I had read which was a lot but not ALL). So I began to think through the chart and house arrangements and even wrote a few articles documenting those mental calisthenics which seemed so 'right'! Then came a phase of intense experimentation with charts of all kinds and trying to apply those thought experiments in the framework of charts and the actual experiences of nativities. It was a mixed success but not enough to quit. Things got more complicated with my experimentation with ayanamshas and several parameters.

Now I am at peace! So perhaps I should let others sleep. After all I am not the village watchman who goes around the village disturbing everyone's self-imposed peaceful slumber with his shrill, "Jaagtay Raho!"

But ... :-(

RR,
     that was funny. Would you mind elaborating on how you got from the stage of complicated experimentation with ayanamsha and other parameters to the peaceful stage ? If I am understanding your stages of jyotish learning correctly, they are as follows. Please correct me if I am wrong

1.  read a lot of jyotish literature but not ALL
2.  thought through the chart and house arrangements and even wrote a few articles documenting those mental calisthenics which seemed so 'right'!
3.  Then came a phase of intense experimentation with charts of all kinds and trying to apply those thought experiments in the framework of charts and the actual experiences of nativities. It was a mixed success but not enough to quit.
4.  Things got more complicated with experimentation with ayanamshas and several parameters.
5,..............
-
-
-
~PEACE~

Would appreciate if you could fill up stages five through PEACE,

thanks in advance and regards,

[quote="projenator"]RR,
     that was funny. Would you mind elaborating on how you got from the stage of complicated experimentation with ayanamsha and other parameters to the peaceful stage ? If I am understanding your stages of jyotish learning correctly, they are as follows. Please correct me if I am wrong

1.  read a lot of jyotish literature but not ALL
2.  thought through the chart and house arrangements and even wrote a few articles documenting those mental calisthenics which seemed so 'right'!
3.  Then came a phase of intense experimentation with charts of all kinds and trying to apply those thought experiments in the framework of charts and the actual experiences of nativities. It was a mixed success but not enough to quit.
4.  Things got more complicated with experimentation with ayanamshas and several parameters.
5,..............
-
-
-
~PEACE~

Would appreciate if you could fill up stages five through PEACE,

thanks in advance and regards,[/quote]


Dear Proj,

You missed the critical sentence (for me! Obviously not for you, yet! ):
" the *maya* in jyotish is this "logical" part! Because the way it is constructed, jyotish is an aankh micholi of logic and paralogic!"

The traveller found this wonderful, peaceful, clear tiny lake. Tired from all the walking, he lay down at its brink, taken by its beauty and tranquillity. Suddenly, the peace was gone and the lake was not placid anymore. It became turbid, frothy even and disturbingly unclear. Crest-fallen, I must have stopped breathing for a few second -- just to realize that the lake was clear again, like when I found it. I realized that my excited, passionate breath was creating the turbulance!

Since I could not stop breathing, yet (!), I simply moved away very scientifically, inch  by inch until I arrived at a safe distance!

Didn't Heisenberg describe something like that? Observer and the observed or something like that? You are closer to numbers and math than I am

In fact, the first para is the one which was the serious part, a very true realization, which one can only realize if he thinks deeply about it rather than read all the literature available and busy themselves with applying it.

"the *maya* in jyotish is this "logical" part! Because the way it is constructed, jyotish is an aankh micholi of logic and paralogic! Individuals have sometimes gotten angry and bitter at me because I disrupt their logical dream and who like the person that disturbs one's slumber?"

the rest, especially the last couple sentences were funny to which i was responding

Actually I kind of realized this when I thought deeply about the ninth house and the ninth being twelfth from the tenth. Now ninth as we all know is the bhagyasthan but what is bhagya ? and if the bhagya is strong why would someone's societal status be diminished due to it ? In fact, what i feel needs to be very deeply understood is the meaning of the bhavas and try to correlate that with reality, not necessarily find logic in it as you would in modern day science because real life is not always logical. If you always have done good karma and therefore bhagyaban (lucky by 9th house interpretation) doesn't necessarily mean you will have a great status in society or a good career. People with great status in society haven't always had good karma which is so illogical and unfair but that's how real life is. Now jyotish is trying to model real human lives and its interaction with the society, both of which has an illusory component and a real component and IT'S NOT LOGICAL. Therefore, part of jyotish has to be intuitive, art or whichever way you put it, anything more than science and logic. In fact if you go to the heights of modern day science, there is always an "art" component to it, be it designing a chip layout or predicting future value of a company. Figuring the "art" component requires a holistic view (remember my first email to you), intuition (jyotismati nadi as K N Rao would call it). Off course some of this can be gained by experience and having done it repeatedly with great dedication but there will always be a component shaky and still to be figured out.  It will be like a mirage, the more you feel closer to it, the farther it goes. Therefore, reading a lot of principles and trying to apply them can get you at most to the graduate level but not Phd and beyond. The ability to take a holistic view and sum it all up can partly be achieved by experience or won't be achieved at all in one's lifetime and that part is what differentiates a great astrologer from a good astrologer.  In high school or college, all problems seem to have one correct answer but as you progress higher, it's more about possibilities and there's no one correct answer and trying to find one would be illusory at best.

I always keep a few basic principles in mind, one of them is the recurrence principle which you always point out, instead of getting biased by one exaltation or debilitation or combustion, try to see whether that theme reverbates through the chart including the divisional charts.  Back to the holistic view point.
One more thing I am striving to do is to do a broad skim of all the available literature so that I can use them effectively to back up one particular finding and then form a conclusion.

But it's a long long journey........... and I realize that fully well.

Thanks for the setting the right tone, I appreciate that.