[quote="RishiRahul"][quote="rohiniranjan"][quote="RishiRahul"][quote="rohiniranjan"][quote="RishiRahul"][quote="rohiniranjan"][quote="RishiRahul"]Dear Dada,

I try to be as transparent, even about sharing such things.

During this period it is obvious that Venusian interests will try to shows its face more in comparison. It did and I did not try to restrict it.

Rethinking the situation, I can say that I followed the advice of a native who was ruled by Venusian interests influenced by Ketu(My Venus and Ketu are conjunct), though my intuition told me to do otherwise, but I felt practically that his experience was more in the regard.

RishiRahul[/quote]

Much appreciated, Rishi bhai. I am just wondering if the shadashtaka between venus and jupiter who are in guna, enemies (devguru and asurguru -- one a vegetarian brahmin, the other not averse to more demonic tastes etc), was what indicated the warning signal (intuitive feeling)? Had the two been more mutually functionally beneficially placed (conjunction, trine etc) then perhaps that intuitive warning would have been blunted or even obtunded? Makes sense? This is assuming of course that venus and jupiter are equally strong in the scenario.

RishiRahul=Agreed with the very correct logic. But just speaking of dasa antardasa lords being shashtashtaka(mutually inimical to each other) would mean that the period would not be settling, but will give a feeling of unsettlement finally ( as they are mutual benefics, good results at first). They being natural benefics in operation gave its beneficence as nrmally they are supposed to give, but, followed by the unsettling factor.

Again, the dasa and antardasa lord loses friendship in panchada maitra relation to each other.. making it clear that that the great beneficence(due to them being natural benefics) would have its serios problems.

Of course your course of thinking is logical too.

Anyway, the above is hypothetical and academic ... as discussions go.[/quote]

Dada,

I should be more clear.

Through this period I came upon lots of money which I earned. In the end of this period Jupiter-Venus-Mercury pratyantara I had got very close to my tax consultant and sub broker in share trading due to my astrology, and particularly palm predictions.
We then tried bigtime shortime share trading. Then the shares started falling. Retrograde Mars was in Gemini then and there was a political scam.

I told him that we should not wait but sell more shares than we had, but he was confident and hopeful that we shoul not, so I listened to him and both of us lost heavily.

If we would have listened to myself we would have gained the same amount we lost.

For you thoughts again and we will share.

RishiRahul[/quote]


Rishi,

I can talk in general terms but as you know, my choice of ayanamsha and other parameters are different from mainstream and possibly from what you prefer too. I will probably get a very different planetary period for that time/date and that would not help in this discussion which is about specific planets and so far we have been only talking about their karakttwa facet!

Venus in the karakattwa scheme/facet comes up as love, lovers, luxury, sophistication, beauty, grace, poetry, comforts, putting finishing touches to projects and things, but NOT in all charts as we know from experience I am sure! Likewise jupiter can have many roles which in a given chart may overshadow the karakattwa that we generally attribute jupiter with!

I hope you will understand why I do not wish to dig deep in this mental exercise [/quote]

RishiRahul= Yes, I understand it quite well, as if I use your ayanamsa the fall did not happen during Venus, but shifts to Sun antardasa.

RishiRahul==I understand. Just playing with and keeping to Karakwatyas, again the temporal relation of the two planets come to play here. Firstly they are 6/8 to each other and loses in terms of temporal relationship.

But just keeping to Karakwatyas without  consdering their relative positions, maybe....Devguru and Asurguru are both kings of their diverse kingdoms there fore have respect for each other,; but Devguru, being intolerant of Asurguru's material desires, due to departure from proper Dharma creates a one way enmity. Which means that in their relative periods there can be a hitch or a tug of war affecting the soul.

Waiting for further thoughts, Dada.

RishiRahul[/quote]

In the magical fluidity of COSMIC SYMBiOLOGY, anything is possible! [/quote]


Dear Dada,

You started a real thought provoking topic to deal with. Surely this should not be the end.

I await your thoughts. In the last para told by me probably gives the answer to their(Jupiter and Venus's relation) as to why their natural relation in the panchadamaitri exists.

Thoughts from your end may reveal better enlightment. Do take your time. Sleep, time and space gives birth to better answers when the seed is sown.

RishiRahul[/quote]

Rishi,

Sorry if I gave impression that I am losing interest in the thread or the topic but here are the facts as I observed in my work so far. A planet has many facets and attributes. It has its role as the occupant of a house, as the ruler of house/s, its inherent nature, its karakattwa, its relationships with other planets which itself is based on the naisargik and tatkalika, etc. It is conceivable that its actual manifestations and expressions could be any of these or combination of a few of these. And this is why I shrink away from questions which look at just one factor and determine or describe what often is a matrix-effect. There is also an additional flavour in jyotish (and probably other traditional systems of astrology too) where we have the mythological allegories, such as that of Shukracharya and Brihaspati. I am not trying to denigerate the stories, which make learning fun but must not be treated to encapsulate the entire character of a planet by the personified image in a story.

The maitri between planets certainly must have a basis, a deep philosophical one like you portrayed in Devguru's intolerance of Shukracharya's 'materialistic' leanings. There is also the astrological perspective (planets ruling the 2,4,5,8,9,12 from their moolatrikona and lord of their exaltation sign are friends, the remainders enemies except the planet itself = own sign). If this cold but real rule somehow also fits with the stories and the personified natures of the planets then like they say, perfumed gold! Instances like those are like a snowflake. Tiny meaningless globs of moisture forming a beautiful harmonious and eyecatching shape!

The moolatrikonadi algorithm that we jyotishis follows for maitri determination interacts with the assignment of rulerships which is based on orbital arrangement of planets in the solar system. I can sense that a great intelligence went into figuring that out before the planets or solar system was created and imbued with its essence and soul that we experience as astrology! Isn't that breath-takingly awe-inspiring? Imagine, what we are slicing and dicing and trying to understand every which way we can, and often in different ways, all leading to the same point. This vantage point where the soul weary of traveling sits down to watch NATURE and just marvel at and enjoy its bounties in entirety, as a Colossal whole and not speck by speck!

I find myself speechless when encountering such obvious Grandeur!

For what it is worth, I truly believe that you are onto something when that thought about guru and venus came to you as you explained. You have experienced it, it is real for you -- enjoy and be at peace with that, brother...

Incidentally, KN Rao has a chapter in his Enigmas book on mutual dashas of jupiter and venus, if memory serves me correctly. Since both of you use the same parameters (ayanamsha, dashas etc) you may be interested in taking a look, unless you already have...

Dear Dada,

I always ake this temporal/Tatkalik relation into consideration before giving predictions. Certainly, they are wonderful considerations.

Regarding the Devguru and Asurguru bit: Logic from mythological stories are of prime importance in evaluating planetary natures, and I feel that the stories given in the vedas/puranas were meant for that. Kudos to Hindu philosophy for narrating these.

RishiRahul

My God, this thread is getting a bit long in tooth Anyway, scroll down to the bottom for my response...

[quote="RishiRahul"][quote="rohiniranjan"][quote="RishiRahul"][quote="rohiniranjan"][quote="RishiRahul"][quote="rohiniranjan"][quote="RishiRahul"][quote="rohiniranjan"][quote="RishiRahul"]Dear Dada,

I try to be as transparent, even about sharing such things.

During this period it is obvious that Venusian interests will try to shows its face more in comparison. It did and I did not try to restrict it.

Rethinking the situation, I can say that I followed the advice of a native who was ruled by Venusian interests influenced by Ketu(My Venus and Ketu are conjunct), though my intuition told me to do otherwise, but I felt practically that his experience was more in the regard.

RishiRahul[/quote]

Much appreciated, Rishi bhai. I am just wondering if the shadashtaka between venus and jupiter who are in guna, enemies (devguru and asurguru -- one a vegetarian brahmin, the other not averse to more demonic tastes etc), was what indicated the warning signal (intuitive feeling)? Had the two been more mutually functionally beneficially placed (conjunction, trine etc) then perhaps that intuitive warning would have been blunted or even obtunded? Makes sense? This is assuming of course that venus and jupiter are equally strong in the scenario.

RishiRahul=Agreed with the very correct logic. But just speaking of dasa antardasa lords being shashtashtaka(mutually inimical to each other) would mean that the period would not be settling, but will give a feeling of unsettlement finally ( as they are mutual benefics, good results at first). They being natural benefics in operation gave its beneficence as nrmally they are supposed to give, but, followed by the unsettling factor.

Again, the dasa and antardasa lord loses friendship in panchada maitra relation to each other.. making it clear that that the great beneficence(due to them being natural benefics) would have its serios problems.

Of course your course of thinking is logical too.

Anyway, the above is hypothetical and academic ... as discussions go.[/quote]

Dada,

I should be more clear.

Through this period I came upon lots of money which I earned. In the end of this period Jupiter-Venus-Mercury pratyantara I had got very close to my tax consultant and sub broker in share trading due to my astrology, and particularly palm predictions.
We then tried bigtime shortime share trading. Then the shares started falling. Retrograde Mars was in Gemini then and there was a political scam.

I told him that we should not wait but sell more shares than we had, but he was confident and hopeful that we shoul not, so I listened to him and both of us lost heavily.

If we would have listened to myself we would have gained the same amount we lost.

For you thoughts again and we will share.

RishiRahul[/quote]


Rishi,

I can talk in general terms but as you know, my choice of ayanamsha and other parameters are different from mainstream and possibly from what you prefer too. I will probably get a very different planetary period for that time/date and that would not help in this discussion which is about specific planets and so far we have been only talking about their karakttwa facet!

Venus in the karakattwa scheme/facet comes up as love, lovers, luxury, sophistication, beauty, grace, poetry, comforts, putting finishing touches to projects and things, but NOT in all charts as we know from experience I am sure! Likewise jupiter can have many roles which in a given chart may overshadow the karakattwa that we generally attribute jupiter with!

I hope you will understand why I do not wish to dig deep in this mental exercise [/quote]

RishiRahul= Yes, I understand it quite well, as if I use your ayanamsa the fall did not happen during Venus, but shifts to Sun antardasa.

RishiRahul==I understand. Just playing with and keeping to Karakwatyas, again the temporal relation of the two planets come to play here. Firstly they are 6/8 to each other and loses in terms of temporal relationship.

But just keeping to Karakwatyas without  consdering their relative positions, maybe....Devguru and Asurguru are both kings of their diverse kingdoms there fore have respect for each other,; but Devguru, being intolerant of Asurguru's material desires, due to departure from proper Dharma creates a one way enmity. Which means that in their relative periods there can be a hitch or a tug of war affecting the soul.

Waiting for further thoughts, Dada.

RishiRahul[/quote]

In the magical fluidity of COSMIC SYMBiOLOGY, anything is possible! [/quote]


Dear Dada,

You started a real thought provoking topic to deal with. Surely this should not be the end.

I await your thoughts. In the last para told by me probably gives the answer to their(Jupiter and Venus's relation) as to why their natural relation in the panchadamaitri exists.

Thoughts from your end may reveal better enlightment. Do take your time. Sleep, time and space gives birth to better answers when the seed is sown.

RishiRahul[/quote]

Rishi,

Sorry if I gave impression that I am losing interest in the thread or the topic but here are the facts as I observed in my work so far. A planet has many facets and attributes. It has its role as the occupant of a house, as the ruler of house/s, its inherent nature, its karakattwa, its relationships with other planets which itself is based on the naisargik and tatkalika, etc. It is conceivable that its actual manifestations and expressions could be any of these or combination of a few of these. And this is why I shrink away from questions which look at just one factor and determine or describe what often is a matrix-effect. There is also an additional flavour in jyotish (and probably other traditional systems of astrology too) where we have the mythological allegories, such as that of Shukracharya and Brihaspati. I am not trying to denigerate the stories, which make learning fun but must not be treated to encapsulate the entire character of a planet by the personified image in a story.

The maitri between planets certainly must have a basis, a deep philosophical one like you portrayed in Devguru's intolerance of Shukracharya's 'materialistic' leanings. There is also the astrological perspective (planets ruling the 2,4,5,8,9,12 from their moolatrikona and lord of their exaltation sign are friends, the remainders enemies except the planet itself = own sign). If this cold but real rule somehow also fits with the stories and the personified natures of the planets then like they say, perfumed gold! Instances like those are like a snowflake. Tiny meaningless globs of moisture forming a beautiful harmonious and eyecatching shape!

The moolatrikonadi algorithm that we jyotishis follows for maitri determination interacts with the assignment of rulerships which is based on orbital arrangement of planets in the solar system. I can sense that a great intelligence went into figuring that out before the planets or solar system was created and imbued with its essence and soul that we experience as astrology! Isn't that breath-takingly awe-inspiring? Imagine, what we are slicing and dicing and trying to understand every which way we can, and often in different ways, all leading to the same point. This vantage point where the soul weary of traveling sits down to watch NATURE and just marvel at and enjoy its bounties in entirety, as a Colossal whole and not speck by speck!

I find myself speechless when encountering such obvious Grandeur!

For what it is worth, I truly believe that you are onto something when that thought about guru and venus came to you as you explained. You have experienced it, it is real for you -- enjoy and be at peace with that, brother...

Incidentally, KN Rao has a chapter in his Enigmas book on mutual dashas of jupiter and venus, if memory serves me correctly. Since both of you use the same parameters (ayanamsha, dashas etc) you may be interested in taking a look, unless you already have...[/quote]

Dear Dada,

I always ake this temporal/Tatkalik relation into consideration before giving predictions. Certainly, they are wonderful considerations.

Regarding the Devguru and Asurguru bit: Logic from mythological stories are of prime importance in evaluating planetary natures, and I feel that the stories given in the vedas/puranas were meant for that. Kudos to Hindu philosophy for narrating these.

RishiRahul[/quote]

Rishi, I do not think that the mythological allegories were written to accommodate or written around astrological facts and factors! However, they were written to describe the Human Experience! And since astrology also describes (one hopes faithfully!) the Human Experience, hence the mythology and astrology are nicely dove-tailed and correlate well on many points and issues, like two good friends and brothers, despite their minor differences in approaches, perceptions, etc.

I hope you will agree with me there!

Dada,

Probably the mythological allegories were written to accommodate or written around astrological facts, factors and universal wisdom too. Vedic philosophy has great teachings through these allegories. Only it was expected that the wise may attempt to seek these with the help of their logic.

If this was not done through human experience, we would not be able to understand, feel to realise the understanding properly...... The deep wisdom of the Vedas. One probably has to look more, and more inside to find the wisdom. The more he seeks, the more he finds more,; a lifetime not being enough.....coutesy ..the 'Maya' obstructs to delay.

Rishiahul

[quote="RishiRahul"][quote="rohiniranjan"]My God, this thread is getting a bit long in tooth Anyway, scroll down to the bottom for my response...

[quote="RishiRahul"][quote="rohiniranjan"][quote="RishiRahul"][quote="rohiniranjan"][quote="RishiRahul"][quote="rohiniranjan"][quote="RishiRahul"][quote="rohiniranjan"][quote="RishiRahul"]Dear Dada,

I try to be as transparent, even about sharing such things.

During this period it is obvious that Venusian interests will try to shows its face more in comparison. It did and I did not try to restrict it.

Rethinking the situation, I can say that I followed the advice of a native who was ruled by Venusian interests influenced by Ketu(My Venus and Ketu are conjunct), though my intuition told me to do otherwise, but I felt practically that his experience was more in the regard.

RishiRahul[/quote]

Much appreciated, Rishi bhai. I am just wondering if the shadashtaka between venus and jupiter who are in guna, enemies (devguru and asurguru -- one a vegetarian brahmin, the other not averse to more demonic tastes etc), was what indicated the warning signal (intuitive feeling)? Had the two been more mutually functionally beneficially placed (conjunction, trine etc) then perhaps that intuitive warning would have been blunted or even obtunded? Makes sense? This is assuming of course that venus and jupiter are equally strong in the scenario.

RishiRahul=Agreed with the very correct logic. But just speaking of dasa antardasa lords being shashtashtaka(mutually inimical to each other) would mean that the period would not be settling, but will give a feeling of unsettlement finally ( as they are mutual benefics, good results at first). They being natural benefics in operation gave its beneficence as nrmally they are supposed to give, but, followed by the unsettling factor.

Again, the dasa and antardasa lord loses friendship in panchada maitra relation to each other.. making it clear that that the great beneficence(due to them being natural benefics) would have its serios problems.

Of course your course of thinking is logical too.

Anyway, the above is hypothetical and academic ... as discussions go.[/quote]

Dada,

I should be more clear.

Through this period I came upon lots of money which I earned. In the end of this period Jupiter-Venus-Mercury pratyantara I had got very close to my tax consultant and sub broker in share trading due to my astrology, and particularly palm predictions.
We then tried bigtime shortime share trading. Then the shares started falling. Retrograde Mars was in Gemini then and there was a political scam.

I told him that we should not wait but sell more shares than we had, but he was confident and hopeful that we shoul not, so I listened to him and both of us lost heavily.

If we would have listened to myself we would have gained the same amount we lost.

For you thoughts again and we will share.

RishiRahul[/quote]


Rishi,

I can talk in general terms but as you know, my choice of ayanamsha and other parameters are different from mainstream and possibly from what you prefer too. I will probably get a very different planetary period for that time/date and that would not help in this discussion which is about specific planets and so far we have been only talking about their karakttwa facet!

Venus in the karakattwa scheme/facet comes up as love, lovers, luxury, sophistication, beauty, grace, poetry, comforts, putting finishing touches to projects and things, but NOT in all charts as we know from experience I am sure! Likewise jupiter can have many roles which in a given chart may overshadow the karakattwa that we generally attribute jupiter with!

I hope you will understand why I do not wish to dig deep in this mental exercise [/quote]

RishiRahul= Yes, I understand it quite well, as if I use your ayanamsa the fall did not happen during Venus, but shifts to Sun antardasa.

RishiRahul==I understand. Just playing with and keeping to Karakwatyas, again the temporal relation of the two planets come to play here. Firstly they are 6/8 to each other and loses in terms of temporal relationship.

But just keeping to Karakwatyas without  consdering their relative positions, maybe....Devguru and Asurguru are both kings of their diverse kingdoms there fore have respect for each other,; but Devguru, being intolerant of Asurguru's material desires, due to departure from proper Dharma creates a one way enmity. Which means that in their relative periods there can be a hitch or a tug of war affecting the soul.

Waiting for further thoughts, Dada.

RishiRahul[/quote]

In the magical fluidity of COSMIC SYMBiOLOGY, anything is possible! [/quote]


Dear Dada,

You started a real thought provoking topic to deal with. Surely this should not be the end.

I await your thoughts. In the last para told by me probably gives the answer to their(Jupiter and Venus's relation) as to why their natural relation in the panchadamaitri exists.

Thoughts from your end may reveal better enlightment. Do take your time. Sleep, time and space gives birth to better answers when the seed is sown.

RishiRahul[/quote]

Rishi,

Sorry if I gave impression that I am losing interest in the thread or the topic but here are the facts as I observed in my work so far. A planet has many facets and attributes. It has its role as the occupant of a house, as the ruler of house/s, its inherent nature, its karakattwa, its relationships with other planets which itself is based on the naisargik and tatkalika, etc. It is conceivable that its actual manifestations and expressions could be any of these or combination of a few of these. And this is why I shrink away from questions which look at just one factor and determine or describe what often is a matrix-effect. There is also an additional flavour in jyotish (and probably other traditional systems of astrology too) where we have the mythological allegories, such as that of Shukracharya and Brihaspati. I am not trying to denigerate the stories, which make learning fun but must not be treated to encapsulate the entire character of a planet by the personified image in a story.

The maitri between planets certainly must have a basis, a deep philosophical one like you portrayed in Devguru's intolerance of Shukracharya's 'materialistic' leanings. There is also the astrological perspective (planets ruling the 2,4,5,8,9,12 from their moolatrikona and lord of their exaltation sign are friends, the remainders enemies except the planet itself = own sign). If this cold but real rule somehow also fits with the stories and the personified natures of the planets then like they say, perfumed gold! Instances like those are like a snowflake. Tiny meaningless globs of moisture forming a beautiful harmonious and eyecatching shape!

The moolatrikonadi algorithm that we jyotishis follows for maitri determination interacts with the assignment of rulerships which is based on orbital arrangement of planets in the solar system. I can sense that a great intelligence went into figuring that out before the planets or solar system was created and imbued with its essence and soul that we experience as astrology! Isn't that breath-takingly awe-inspiring? Imagine, what we are slicing and dicing and trying to understand every which way we can, and often in different ways, all leading to the same point. This vantage point where the soul weary of traveling sits down to watch NATURE and just marvel at and enjoy its bounties in entirety, as a Colossal whole and not speck by speck!

I find myself speechless when encountering such obvious Grandeur!

For what it is worth, I truly believe that you are onto something when that thought about guru and venus came to you as you explained. You have experienced it, it is real for you -- enjoy and be at peace with that, brother...

Incidentally, KN Rao has a chapter in his Enigmas book on mutual dashas of jupiter and venus, if memory serves me correctly. Since both of you use the same parameters (ayanamsha, dashas etc) you may be interested in taking a look, unless you already have...[/quote]

Dear Dada,

I always ake this temporal/Tatkalik relation into consideration before giving predictions. Certainly, they are wonderful considerations.

Regarding the Devguru and Asurguru bit: Logic from mythological stories are of prime importance in evaluating planetary natures, and I feel that the stories given in the vedas/puranas were meant for that. Kudos to Hindu philosophy for narrating these.

RishiRahul[/quote]

Rishi, I do not think that the mythological allegories were written to accommodate or written around astrological facts and factors! However, they were written to describe the Human Experience! And since astrology also describes (one hopes faithfully!) the Human Experience, hence the mythology and astrology are nicely dove-tailed and correlate well on many points and issues, like two good friends and brothers, despite their minor differences in approaches, perceptions, etc.

I hope you will agree with me there![/quote]


Dada,

Probably the mythological allegories were written to accommodate or written around astrological facts, factors and universal wisdom too. Vedic philosophy has great teachings through these allegories. Only it was expected that the wise may attempt to seek these with the help of their logic.

If this was not done through human experience, we would not be able to understand, feel to realise the understanding properly...... The deep wisdom of the Vedas. One probably has to look more, and more inside to find the wisdom. The more he seeks, the more he finds more,; a lifetime not being enough.....coutesy ..the 'Maya' obstructs to delay.

Rishiahul[/quote]

Dear Rishi bhai,

If it were that simple and so definite, this thread would not have grown so long!

Makes sense?  

For astrologers -- not to look inside, but outside! Into charts of those others that populate reality for the astrologers amongst us!

To whom we return, time and again!
Who really need us!

Thankfully!