Hello all,

I realize that different people have different takes on jyotish, subject to the type of learning they have received and different schools, systems and so on.

It is not unusual to find people who would emphasize one or the other techniques, such as padas, ashtakavarga, vargas, different chakras and different reliance of dashas, transits, yogas etc etc etc. And if we also lump in those that follow KP or Systems approach and several other variants, the collage is nothing short of a complex matrix, mosaic and in short, confusing to most beginners and even more experienced individuals!

All those complexities aside, most of us began with simple building blocks such as effect of a planet in a certain house, effect of a lord in a certain house, and trying to connect that with different classical combinations: yogas and arishtas, and trying to come up with a reading after weighing in other factors such as beneficience, strength, transparency/expressivity (guna) etc.

Has anyone ever tried to actually take a chart and go with the standard classical predictions/descriptions given in scriptures and texts and then checked back to see if the readings matched actual experiences of the nativity? This would seem to me a very essential step because it would indicate if these 'canned' readings taken from the books are actually based on reality of experience or not.

Modern software enables one to do this to a certain extent by doing the pattern identification for us and producing (regurgitating) the classical viewpoint/opinion on a given combination etc. Sounds like a simple step and one that must be easy to do before we post a query on forums, such as: What is the effect of moon in the 7th, or what happens if mars is in the fourth house (or other mangalik places).

Prof. BV Raman's adage sounds loudly in the ears, "The proof of the pudding is in the eating".

It is not too late yet. While the wizened jyotishis have already crystalized their opinions and positions (which curiously differ from their equally experienced peers!), the beginners who are still pliable and not rigidly 'set' in their ways and needing to get defensive about their positions, should conduct the testing I am recommending. Software like PLight or Andrew Foss' software etc make this testing easier to conduct but one can with patience also do it manually by picking a testbed of few combinations and running them through charts which have those and comparing the standard reading in texts (expected) with the actual effect experienced (observed). Statistically-inclined astro-experimenters can even use something simple like chi-square test and see if the ancient wisdom pans out or not.

The results will be surprising, and even revealing. And if a group of beginners gets together and does the above in a group, they will find the tedium reduced. Otherwise, it will just go on and on in cycles and another similar, "what is the effect of this or that in this house or another" and the cyberprinting press will start again, arriving nowhere, yet one more time!

RR

With the unsought but presumed permission of owner and moderators, I would like to pursue this a bit further in a different way. Since the intention is not to generate a reading in a typical sense but just an investigation, an examination of the classics in a sense, I request that this thread remain in the discussion forum and that irrelevant postings added to this thread be removed by moderators at their discretion or at my reasonably justified request.

I would like individuals to post ONLY their own birth data (ddmonthyy/time/city/source of birthdata; e.g., 23 December 1954/15:17 h/Ujjain, MP, India/family diary and mother's recall going back to when I was 10 years old). NO OTHER INFORMATION PLEASE.

Based on that I will generate a software reading/analysis. The querant will then judge how much of it was correct and how much was almost correct and how much was absolutely irrelevant.

I realize this is not a perfect design but let us begin somewhere.

My request to participants:

* Only your birthdata please as we will need to confirm facts and no matter how well you think you know your wife, mother, son or friend, experience tells me that it is a myth! So your data only. And I need an expressed statement to that effect please!

* You need to be at least 27 years old or older (birthdate after November 1, 1980).

* If you are not sure about your birthdata, please refrain from donating it here for research or in the name of science! Your willingess is appreciated though.

* A total transparency is required, to the extent possible. Remember this is an experiment and not a test-session.

* If you are sceptical as to the intentions of this experiment and so on, just observe without injecting too much negativity and turning others off. Or better still, spend your valuable time in focusing on other threads etc ;-)

* I am a slow individual so please do not overwhelm me with a whole bunch of birthdata. Let us produce the output one at a time please or it will turn into a fish-market pretty soon (machchi bazaar!).

* THIS is an experiment and NOT a means to get a reading. Don't have your expectations too high!

* Initially, we will just score the performance of "Crystal Bowl" in qualitative terms and then develop some more precise scoring system. I have the scoring system in my head, but let us first start slow and gauge the interest and how sustained that is amongst the group!

Now, where rubber meets the road! KAUN BANEGAA FIRST GUINEA-PIG?

RR

Dear Rohiniji,

I think I am the first guinea pig in this experiment.

My Details : 6th Jun 78 / 3:15pm / Venkatagiri / India / Family Diary.

Shanthanu.

[quote="shanthanu_sarma"]Dear Rohiniji,

I think I am the first guinea pig in this experiment.

My Details : 6th Jun 78 / 3:15pm / Venkatagiri / India / Family Diary.

Shanthanu.[/quote]

Thanks. After you have had a chance to go through the program output, please rate it (high, low, medium) for accuracy. Indicate things that are exact fits and those that are way out of tune.

**************
shantanusarma crystalbowl#1

1  - The lord of Libra lagna is Venus, and Venus is the king of beauty. The person born under this sign will therefore be an appreciator of beauty.
2  - He will be attracted towards natural beauty, beautiful pictures and beautiful females. He will be artistically inclined and will be desirous of living in peaceful and beautiful surrounding.
3  - He will have a balanced mind and will consider the advantages and disadvantages of all things and arrive at the truth.
4  - He will be fond of justice and will maintain equality in justice.
5  - He will test everything in a logical way. He will be skilled in expressing himself in a precise and clear manner.
6  - He will be kind hearted and soft-spoken, however he may be enraged one moment and cool in the next moment. He will be short tempered but will cool down and forget everything immediately. He will be clean at heart.
7  - He will be a skilled mediator.
8  - He will give more importance to morality than truth.
9  - He will exceptionally humanitarian.
10 - He will be true and compassionate in behaviour and will be gentle and peace loving. He will acquire peace at any cost. He will try to keep away from arguments and debates as far as possible.
11 - He will be popular among his friends because he will always be eager to help others. His friends will be respected and of a good status. He will be fond of hanging around with others.
12 - He will not be lazy by nature although he will be labeled inactive.
13 - He will be a forerunner, devoted to god, devoted to teacher and will be interested in intellectual work.
14 - He may need to change his behaviour, he should keep his emotions in check, he should not appoint someone of the opposite sex as his private secretary, he should forgive but not forget, he should not spend much on cosmetics, he should try to take quick decisions.      

Because of Venus being the lord of Taurus Rashi, people born under Taurus Rashi have an attractive appearance, large eyes, round face, broad facial structure, wide chest, mole on the back, face, side or shoulder, high shoulders, dense hair, broad waist, shoulders, feet, thighs and will have a beautiful walk. The person will be polite, calm natured, tolerant, liberal, pleasure loving, sensuous, sacrificing, prudent, wealthy, hardworking, bold, intelligent;  devoted to parents and teachers, impressive, prominent at meetings, determined in their work, occasionally upset, suffering from cold and cough, friendly, devoid of inherited wealth and son, blessed with daughter, fortunate, famous, forgiving, capable of digesting food easily, endowed with stable and good friends; happy in middle and old age, staying away from relatives, interested in painting and music, gaining sudden wealth, fond of authority, interested in leading happy life, fearful of going to jail on false charges, favorite among females, blessed with an obedient wife and having relations with three women.
There may be suffering from cold etc. eye ailments, throat or abdominal problems and ear ailments in old age.

Persons born under Taurus rashi will be stable and firm natured, patient and tolerant, endowed with physical and mental tolerance and forbearing, having a dangerous and violent temper, collector of worldly comforts, capable of sacrificing everything for their beloved and unforgiving towards the people they hate. They are fond of beauty, music, art, good clothes and a happy and luxurious life. They will strive to acquire it. They will be stubborn and will have the ability to accomplish their plans and will give a lot of thought to trivial work. They will be practical about money matters and will be desirous of earning wealth and they will care about targets, not the medium. They will make friends after long consideration and will be devoted to them. They will bear responsibility in relation to love affairs and family life and will suffer disappointments and anxiety because of laziness, selfishness, sensuality, materialism and other faults.
1. Libra lagna is an Airy sign, so the person born in this lagna will be tall, with long, strong hands and limbs.
2. Face will be longish with clear good features.
3. There may be a mole on the face or neck.
4. After middle age he may lose hair on the occipital region.
5. His physical personality will be impressive.



When the lord of the first house is in the ninth house, one is fortunate, popular, devoted to God, clever, a skilled orator and endowed with son, spouse and wealth. One will be an ascetic, will have friends and associates, be benevolent, will travel abroad, be happy and well behaved, famous and honored by kings. One will do good deeds, will be famous, enlightened and will treat everyone equally. One will philanthropic, with an enlightened mind. One will be fortunate, famous, devoted to God, interested in the company of sages and in travelling. One will be remembered long after one's death on account of one's good deeds.Experience : If Venus is the Lagna lord then auspicious results will be experienced

When the lord of the second house is in the eleventh house, then one will be wealthy, religious, clever and ailing from diseases during childhood but later on one will  lead to a happy life. One may be wealthy, an advisor to the king, well behaved, in business, renowned, prosperous and will enjoy all comforts. One will be famous and will rear many people. One acquires lot of wealth and precious things, and will be helpful to friends.Experience : If Mars is the second lord then auspicious results are experienced.

When the lord of the third house is in the ninth house, one's fortunes may improve because of the influence of the opposite sex, one's father may be a thief and one's spouse may give trouble to him. If the lord of the third house is a malefic graha then one's brothers defeat him, and all the following interpretations are reversed. If the lord of the third house is an auspicious graha then one performs good deeds, has good friends, is devoted to them, is affectionate towards one's brothers and sisters and one supports people. One is blessed with a son and has valor and intelligence. One travels to religious places and people sings one praises even after one's death. One gets wealth from the opposite sex and one's father is pitiable and involved in bad deeds. Experience : If Jupiter is the third lord then the above mentioned auspicious are experienced.

When the lord of the fourth house is in the eleventh house of gain, then one will be ailing, wealthy, liberal and talented and may earn wealth through one's own efforts. One may be devoted to one's parents and may support them. One may attain many benefits, perform good deeds, have a long-life and be healthy. One obeys one's father, travels abroad and may be wealthy. One may make efforts to acquire sudden wealth, but may not be successful. One will be always ailing. Experience : If Saturn is the fourth lord then one will not experience the above mentioned auspicious results.

When the lord of the fifth house is in the eleventh house, one is a scholar, a writer of books, clever, popular, wealthy and blessed with many sons and friends. One will be happy and excellent at music. One may be an official and will donate like a king/queen. One will be brave, will perform good deeds and will be skilled in fine arts and music. One will succeed in enjoying favour from the king/queen. One will be intelligent, scholarly, wealthy and blessed with a son.

When the lord of the sixth house is in the ninth house, one is involved in the selling of wood and stones and incurs profit and losses alternatively. If the lord of the sixth house is a malefic, one is lame and opposed to one's brothers. One lacks faith in the Shastras and may be a beggar. One may be corrupt, cruel and disrespectful towards elders and a beggar. One goes against religion. When the lord of the sixth house is a malefic, one's leg may be fractured, there are various disputes and there is lack of popularity and wealth. BAd deeds are done and one may not be blessed by a son. One is unfortunate, defamed and troubled by an all-pervasive mess in one's life.

When the lord of the seventh house is in the eleventh house, one's children die at birth. Occasionally, a daughter may survive and later on, sons may also survive. One's spouse is loving, obeying, well behaved, wealthy and suspicious regarding her/his father. She may be beautiful, cultured and sweet but may die during childbirth. Children may suffer. One is blessed with wealth, sons and friends.Experience : If Mars is the seventh lord then the above mentioned inauspicious results are experienced.

When the lord of the eighth house is in the ninth house then one will be a great sinner, an aethist, infatuated with the opposite sex and interested in seizing the wealth of others. One will be deprived of a son. One will be a savage, deprived of friends and respected here and there. One will be lovely, on the hunt, deprived of friends and brothers and will go against respectable people and will always be critical of them. According to Navatheji: As a legacy, one will manage someone's estate, people will mortgage their property with them and give money on asking. One will be ill charactered, wicked and will have few children.Experience : If Venus is the eighth lord then the above mentioned auspicious results are experienced.

When the ninth lord is in the eighth house then one will be unlucky and devoid of the pleasure of an elder brother throughout one's life. One will always be ailing, fraudulent, wicked, virtuous and immoral. One will be a friend of the wicked or lowly persons and will be impotent. One will harm people, be without family and relatives, not be virtuous and will be cruel and impotent. According to Navatha Ji: One will be disreputable, unfortunate, unlucky and will not be happy.Experience : If Mercury is the ninth lord then the above mentioned auspicious results are experienced.

When the lord of the tenth house is in the eighth house, one is anxious, physically unwell and has a mediocre financial status. One may be a real tyrant, untruthful, cunning, skilled at thefts and troublesome for one's mother. One may have a short life span. One makes  both ends meet with great difficulty, acquires the hidden wealth of one's father and always contemplates on how to acquire wealth which is not rightfully theirs.Experience : If Moon is the tenth lord then the above mentioned auspicious results are experienced.

When the lord of the eleventh house is in the eighth house, one has a beautiful spouse, is generous, wealthy, sensuous and like God on earth. If a benefic graha is there then one suffers from many ailments and is enmical towards enemies. One may get hidden wealth, unclaimed property and wealth amassed without effort.

When the lord of the twelfth house is in the eighth house, one is devoted to God, religious, soft spoken and talented. One may be 'Ashtakapali' (eight headed), very low in  one's thinking and criticized by all. When the lord of the twelfth house is a benefic then one is engrossed in thinking. One may be a gambler and suddenly lose all of one's wealth due to wrong things.Experience : If Mercury is the twelfth lord then the above mentioned auspicious results are experienced.
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Dear Rohini ji,
Here are my views about the reading done by the software.

<QUOTE>
1  - The lord of Libra lagna is Venus, and Venus is the king of beauty. The person born under this sign will therefore be an appreciator of beauty.
2  - He will be attracted towards natural beauty, beautiful pictures and beautiful females. He will be artistically inclined and will be desirous of living in peaceful and beautiful surrounding.
3  - He will have a balanced mind and will consider the advantages and disadvantages of all things and arrive at the truth.
4  - He will be fond of justice and will maintain equality in justice.
5  - He will test everything in a logical way. He will be skilled in expressing himself in a precise and clear manner.
6  - He will be kind hearted and soft-spoken, however he may be enraged one moment and cool in the next moment. He will be short tempered but will cool down and forget everything immediately. He will be clean at heart.
7  - He will be a skilled mediator.
8  - He will give more importance to morality than truth.
9  - He will exceptionally humanitarian.
10 - He will be true and compassionate in behaviour and will be gentle and peace loving. He will acquire peace at any cost. He will try to keep away from arguments and debates as far as possible.
11 - He will be popular among his friends because he will always be eager to help others. His friends will be respected and of a good status. He will be fond of hanging around with others.
12 - He will not be lazy by nature although he will be labeled inactive.
13 - He will be a forerunner, devoted to god, devoted to teacher and will be interested in intellectual work.
14 - He may need to change his behaviour, he should keep his emotions in check, he should not appoint someone of the opposite sex as his private secretary, he should forgive but not forget, he should not spend much on cosmetics, he should try to take quick decisions
</QUOTE>


The above are exactly true except 7&9, which are partially true. VERY HIGH ACCURACY.


<QUOTE>
Because of Venus being the lord of Taurus Rashi, people born under Taurus Rashi have an attractive appearance, large eyes, round face, broad facial structure, wide chest, mole on the back, face, side or shoulder, high shoulders, dense hair, broad waist, shoulders, feet, thighs and will have a beautiful walk.
</QUOTE>

The physical features description matches, except for high shoulders (I have a bit low shoulders). Mole on shoulder thing is also true. HIGH ACCURACY.

<QUOTE>
Persons born under Taurus rashi will be stable and firm natured, patient and tolerant, endowed with physical and mental tolerance and forbearing, having a dangerous and violent temper, collector of worldly comforts, capable of sacrificing everything for their beloved and unforgiving towards the people they hate.
</QUOTE>

the above is of LOW or NO ACCURACY.

<QUOTE>
1. Libra lagna is an Airy sign, so the person born in this lagna will be tall, with long, strong hands and limbs.
2. Face will be longish with clear good features.
3. There may be a mole on the face or neck.
4. After middle age he may lose hair on the occipital region.
5. His physical personality will be impressive.
</QUOTE>

1,5 is correct. 2,3 not correct. 4 - will let you know when i reach old age. LOWER ACCURACY.


************************************************************************************
Overall I rate the accuracy of the software to be on the higher side (6.5/10). The software can be more comprehensive in the sense as to detail  the yoga's and other worth-mentioning combinations of the planets the native has.

Hope the evaluation is useful.

Thanks,
Shantanu.