Hallo, everybody!

Since Cedars has been kind enough to fish me back into business here, I will gladly enter this debate, specially since I was truly stumped by this position and its meaning when I began -way back when... -.

I mean, how can the same card mean something + and - at the same time, like Rutho said?

But, after many readings, I saw how it could be and how it usually is, since human nature is quite gray, as opposed to the black/white concept, or +/-. For many of us, future events make our hearts beat faster with a mix of feelings of hope, dread, trepidation, doubt, illusion and whatnot.

It is easy to see when this position is occupied by a + card, like the 6 of wands, because, though most of us crave triumph, who among us does not fear to suddenly be in the limelight? In fact, this meaning is very clearly seen in a card like the 2 of cups, when compromising ourselves in a new relationship or new business. Otherwise, why would some men seem so little inclined towards marriage? Some part of it they want, some part they fear -so do women, for that matter, but we tend to take on new responsibilities far more easily, must be hormonal or something-.

I guess it is harder to see this position as hopeful when a negative card or meaning come up. But, just as we fear a little that which is good for us, we also can have huge cravings towards things that we know are hurting us, like a twisted relationship, a poorly paid job, any kind of substance abuse -in my case that includes chocolate! Tons of it are killing my poor liver, but still...-. My favorite card for this example is The Devil: it embodies all those things we are ashamed to avow to others, yet we do not feel free to do without them. Another example can be the 4 of swords: we "hope" to be left alone, yet we fear nobody will ever come to give us the kiss of life and we will have to "sleep" forever after. One very common example of this is the kind of person who literally takes refuge in real or semi real illness in order to avoid responsibilities while still getting all the attention: they may hope to carry on with this little fraud, but what if the illness becomes painfully real? will it then be worth it?

Anyway, here is my own penny's worth. Sorry for the brick  

Hey Pirbid!!!

No "brick" at all my friend. Glad to see you and your inputs....... the way we used to do.

I am glad you brought some card examples around this subject and I had all those negative cards in my mind. It is 'easier' to have hopes and fears out of positive cards, but when you pause and think for a while on a negative card, you can only see the Fears about it.. :( But I also agree that the Fear in itself can turn out to be a hope -- The Tower, after the initial upheaval, there is always a positive , i.e Hope aspect coming out of it. I guess the same would apply to the Ten of Swords.

I raised this issue in order to see if the opinions and examples would be around my line of thinkingt.....  I like Rhuto's + and - ratio on this too.

I dare say we may still be stumped by this position in the future to come, but debates like this will hopefully and not fearfully (ha ha ha)  pave the way to a better understanding of this position.

Am glad I fished you out of your ............... hibernation .

Be good and dont be such a stranger.

cedars