Hi All,

MMMMM, yes, this was raised before, but I don't think we really got to a point of agreement.

Being Gay myself, I was attracted to a comment passed on another forum. The following questions was raised as a result of the discussions.

1) Do you ask a person his orientation and if so why?
2) In asking, would it influence your perception as reader of the integrity of your querant?
3) Most Gay men (or those I know) are "straight looking, straight acting"--in the closset or public. A lot of gay Woman are "butch" but easily misjudged as straight, especially in SA, farmgirls etc. Now at the other end we would have the "Queens" under the men, very feminine, actually scary, they tend to "mince" when walking? Under the ladies, looking the real thing of femininety and caring wife to a labouring husband, kinda idea. Now this is where the questions pop-up and gremlins hang on the fans. When seeing a Queen waltzing in, would give you a very good idea of his orientation? In selecting his significator is it a male or a female Royal, too feminine for a King, but the tools don't fit the Queen!!!, The same with our lady "family members"?  
4) Do you have certain cards that possibly could tell you their orientation, or shall we say, these toghether are "gay" cards?
5) Does it really matter? My personal experience was that me and hubby are always represented as King of Pent. and King of Cups. So, if reading for others is it not possible to misinterpret the other Royal as a rival instead of in the Sheets?
6) What to take on especially the two or three of cups if there are only men and no females around?
7)What would be our reason for wanting to know their orientation?
We will most probably be questioned if we outrightly ask a person his or her orientation, just a   , i don't even think it's in good taste. But then, I'm open about it and am sure everybody can identify me a mile away--very controvertial--(Told a guy he had a nice but in a grocery store, if that trolley could spin, i don't think the tiles would be on the floor ).

So guys, your thoughts?

Blessed be.

i would never ask because it simply does not matter when it comes to reading the Tarot.  if i was blind and someone of a different race from came in and talk to me i sure wouldn't ask what their color is?



like i said i wouldn't ask and even if i did it wouldn't influence me at all.  although i not sure what integrity has to being gay or str8ght.



can't really answer this because i don't use a significatior at all like i did in the beginning of learning to read.  actually when i did use them i used cards that had the same hair color, skin tones, and personality traits and not ever sexual ordination.  getting to the last part of the question if they are "mincing" like a pie then you could assume it but i still don't really understand the importance of it.  


these together aren't gay cards!  although i think i understand what you are getting at.  The Page of Cups have a effeminate side to it and that card might tell you that in a reading.



no doesn't matter at all, which by now i think you get the sense that's how i feel about the subject.  if you are going to pick a card to be you then you will find if you a king of pentacles that you have the traits of the card and not the sexual aspect of it.


that all depends what the reading is about and the cards around it.  maybe a man will be healed with the us of such card in the reading because he has been sick.  maybe he will bond with a female coworker etc etc.  hard to tell.



can't think of one but sure will be interesting to hear others point of view on the matter.

ttyl  

I think you came up with a great subject, Payewacker! Yes, Controversial must be your second name. Btw, you cracked me up with your grocery shop adventure   : I could just see the guy flying down the canned goods isle!  

However, I must say I agree with George: it never crossed my mind till now to associate Queens with women and Kings with men, whatever their taste.

I do not use significators any longer either, because I want to give every single card the chance to come up in a reading. But when reading for myself, I can just as easily appear as the Page, Knight, Queen or King of Wands. In fact, I tend to mutate from one to another depending on circumstances and the time frame. I would love to be the Queen, as I believe them to be more mature and content, but I am more impatient, like the King or Knight. So no, I never take sex into account for myself or others, but the personality traits, rather like George.

As for asking a person about his/her sexual orientation, I would as soon ask them that on our first meeting as how much they are earning . I find it a rude question that has nothing to do with the matter at hand. Whatever our gender and orientation, most of us go through the same kind of love trouble, and that will reflect in the cards regardless of their being Queens or Kings.

Ok, suppose I am doing a reading for you, and those two kings you mention appear: would they be surrounded by Cup cards? If so, I would just describe the two types of personalities (the more emotional and the more practical) and tell you they seem to be joined by emotional links (of course, I would describe those links, joy, sorrow or whatever they depicted). I leave it up to you to decide if you are one of them and your hubby the other, or if the Knight shops in your neighborhood.  

About the integrity of a querent being measured by his/her orientation, I believe you were joking when you asked that. In fact, it is probably the querent who should be worried about MY integrity, since I am the one giving the information, right?

Also, I believe those gay roles for active and passive, masculine and feminine, have changed a lot and even disappeared, as far as I can see in the couples I now. There are still manly looking women and feminine looking men, but you would be surprised how many of those have always been thus and always thought of themselves as straight. So I never take anything for granted from mere appearances, if I can help it.

And, dear me, I never heard of gay cards. I know homosexuality is much older than Tarot, but I am not sure if its original designers took it explicitly into account. However, there is now a beautiful Gay Tarot available. Do you own a copy? Does it help with readings more than the "straight" Tarots?

Actually, since we use these funny nicks and avatars on the board, the other day I was reading a spread in which the reader mistook the gender of the querent. The querent gently corrected the reader on the next post and the reader apologized. That was it. My point being, the rest of the reading was still just as valid! I believe age and experiences can affect more the kind of reading we get than sex or orientation.

Still, great subject, once again. Will wait and see what everybody else has to say about it.

Cheers!  

Hi Pirbid, the shopping centre is classic. When I used to drink a lot and visit bars as a daily ritual, whoooo?

It took me about an hour or so around, joking, just having fun with the guys, and funny enough, they kinda enjoyed it? The girlfriends gets so uptight and to their frustration the boys would brush them off. If youv'e ever seen Lions with feet in scorpions nests or wet cats doesn't even do them justice.

Let me tell you, i have great fun in this little town (only 4000 people). I was dared to drag and entertain a woman at a restaurant at her retirement, it took about 6 hours to get ready, have you ever found these spiky shoes in a 9, balloons for boobs, they burst a few times.

The driving there, my shoe hooked the clutch cable and managed to dislodge it. The only way to get this back (happened frequently), was to lie on your back under the driver side dashboard, stretch in with your left hand, have a good wide spread footing to force your hand in and hopefully voila, this was done in a very mini skirt, fishnet stockings and pinpoint booties at no 9, infront of the same shop, in full view it was!!! , the worst was when i went to buy Kentucky later, men tried to pick me up, imagine the surprise  

No, you need to look at this at the way i read it on the other board and not necessarily my own questions, some yes, but I definitely agree with you in not thinking it in good taste to ask their orientation. Fortunately if someone is gay we spot them a mile away be sure!!

I hope we will get a lot of feedback on this subject, like the "Gay" cards, someone actually claimed if certain cards lay toghether it would mean the person is gay or if married to the opposite sex, confused? I will search and try to find this referance. I must agree, ive never thought of cards falling toghether to indicate any such thing.

Blessed be

Hi Pirbid, didn't have to look to far; these are some suggestions:

Gay
Ill-dignified: High Priestess, Hierophant, Empress or Page of Cups,
Ill dignified

Relation ships
Fem: Page of any suit, rarely knight. Masc: King of Cups

Woman
one or more ill dignified emperor, hierophant and magician
Masc: Knight rarely king of one suit
fem Queen of same suit

For both; in major arcanum shows anima/animus in ill dignity in regularity.
I think some greek has been added to pepper the taste buds?

Here is some more;
Universe upright and fool reversed: bi-curious.
universe (U) with Moon (R) being in the closet
universe (U) with star (U) being bi-sexual
universe (U) with Magician (U) being gay

Blessed be