Thank you prasanna!

Would a loving father allow his child to rush into heavy traffic out of respect for the child's "free will"? Or would he yank him out of traffic? I am using this analogy to compare to our being placed/allowed here in the material world which is full of so much suffering. Even if I hit the lotto, have tons of money, and live in a different mansion every week, and believe in God and attend church every week, I will eventually end up (like all of us) gasping for air on my hospital bed. Why does a loving God allow this? One could suggest spiritual rewards during this life to offset things, but since  I went though an experience where I was almost dying I can say in my own case, you care about nothing else-friends don't matter, all the "fun" you had doesn't matter, Gods don't matter- all you want to do is stay alive. I also saw some very dear relatives of mine die, and they went through a tremendous amount of fear before they died, even though they were decent people and believed in God.

You might know something about the character Ivan in Dostoyevsky's book the Brothers Karamazov. He kept a collection of articles about atrocities that had been inflicted on children. Of course this didn't only happen in 19th C Russia. Are these children, and in some cases infants, "sinners"? It is  hard Q to answer- I don't know if it can be answered satisfactorily- even when you posit reincarnation, you still have the Q " why did the Omnipotent all loving God let us come here to begin with? Again with the father/child analogy the good father ALWAYS curtails the child's free will when the child is in danger.

Having said this I still am not against religion (any religion not abused), believe it or not, nor am I against  any sincere attempt at bringing joy into our short and often difficult lives. I have been to churches and synagogues and temples and had some very positive experiences there. But I also remembered having similar experiences which had nothing to do with religion- like being in the marching band or even being at a sporting event. Whatever 'love" is I am fully in favor of it. I suspect that it has to do with the hard wiring of our brains, and nothing to do with a loving God-there may be some kind of entity/deity/first cause behind things, I just can't see any good evidence of it's being loving.

Of course it could be that I just cannot understand, but that also would suggest that my logic could be unreliable in other areas where I am pretty sure it is not. For example if I can identify a loving human father, wouldn't a loving heavenly father hold himself to at least as high a standard?

By the way,  I have tried prayer for years, and have finally given it up because I have seen absolutely no result connected it with it all. I really think I am happier- it places the responsibility for my life on my own shoulders. I prayed for things like others' health and happiness, my health and happiness, guidance in my life, est.. not bags of gold at my doorstep. My life got some better when I stopped praying. I am not saying that it will not work for others, just talking about my own experience. I sometimes addressed God as "God" and sometimes as "Jesus". I have asked to Jesus to come into my life forever, etc, none of it changed anything. Being with others in a "positive" situation, in or out of a church, always has a good effect. It is brain chemistry, plus my perception. When I receive things as positive, if my brain is healthy, chemicals flow that cause that feeling. If I receive them as negative, then chemicals cause that feeling. If someone has some kinds of brain damage it doesn't  matter what they do or perceive they will feel the way their brain chemistry dictates. If for example  there is damage to the serotonin processing function of the brain, no amount of positive thoughts, or spiritual experiences will correct the situation, although obviously being calm in a non threatening environment will make the situation as good as possible.

I guess the question would be what did Jesus really say about God?  Keeping in mind how many years the book was written after the death of his disciples.   Honestly I think he was trying to show us how to be free.  Even teaching the knowledge to women, oh how that stirred up stuff!  Not really welcomed was he amonst his peers.  Thank you for sharing this passage.  

Rurk- Please keep in mind not all Christians act in such a manner.  And you are free to question everything you are taught just like a child would do.  I'm a former Christian who left the church because of the hate and intolerance I had seen within it.  We love all.  Right?  Arguements set up one on the defense, no new ideas or thoughts can exchange.  Oh but it is hard to bite my tongue!! Then I remember that not all are like that.  If prayer doesn't work find something that does, sounds like that worked out for you.  Agreed it gets frustrating when we are only told one way.  But sometimes prayers might work for other people.  Respecting their will, and their path.  Thank you for sharing your insight, I love to read what other people think in reguards to this.  Just gently nudging that one be mindful of people's beliefs, as it may have hurt you to not have the same in return.  You seem to be a very articulate individual able to express alot.  I look forward to more of your posts.  

Safe Journey