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LordLeckie


Age: 17
Zodiac:
Scorpio



Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Australia
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"Frankly, my sentiment is that no way could those cultures have used one another as a basis for their religions.  My sentiment is that the ONLY way these religions could have had such similar ideas was if God/Goddess caused similar ideas and thoughts."

Or........... It could be that humans have a way of thinking that is radically similar in goals and logical paths that lead to striking similarities, in addition to this we see that often there is increible plagarism from religion (for example how the original roman religion was near identical to the Greeks) such as in the Abrahamic ones.

Christianity is very very guilty of plagarism as you noted with the holidays, this was mainly due to a clever little stratergy to lure in pagans by presenting them with similar practices so as to make the conversion easier, take for example christmas, this is a celebration of the winter solstice where evergreen (christmas trees but not until today, originaly clippings of bushes and such) was used as a symbol of life given that it was getting colder and days shorter and as such this was a ritual of sorts to usher in summer once more. We see also the practice of hanging ornaments on nature (christmas decos) generally silver and gold. The only mention of Christmas in the bible is a passage forbidding it! (Jeremiah 10:3-5)

I could go on and on and on about christianities plagarisms (also i would like to draw attention to the hero cycle/pattern, look it up for some interesting similarities between Jesus and many many many other religious figures through time)



 
drrnwynbchnbrgr


Age: 44
Zodiac:
Scorpio



Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 481
Location: evansville indiana
Reply with quote
If we look to the bible for a reason why there is so many similiarities in different  beliefs it does seem to answer the questions why .
Starting in the beginning,  than the garden ,man and woman , satan and the trees  banishment from the garden and so on  .down though time ....different tribes where formed and different beliefs where put in place to reconnect to that which was lost .dont seem so hard to figure out if think about it . the bible is and will alwyes be a source of true understanding .some just dont seem to care much for it .....
al64


Age: 65
Zodiac:
Taurus



Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 178

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Hi LL
The first paragraph is interesting and seems to follow the present thinking of scientific psychology – that all ideas and thoughts are internal and the result of 'memes' and so on. The trouble with this is that the original ideas had to come from somewhere?

I agree that the Roman religion was Greek and that this in turn came from the Mesopotamians. The Indian and Norse gods may even be the same entities with different names. Read Hamlets Mill, by De Santillana & Von Dachend To me, this suggests, that you cannot pluck gods out of the air and that they need some basis in tradition at the very least. The place of origin of these traditions is, I feel the basic and timeless spiritual truth that I mentioned above that has always been available to us.

I realise that there are quite a few authors writing about the “mythology”  and past crimes of Christianity and I would agree that they are not short of material. I feel, however that it misses the point in that it most often uses man-made corruptions as evidence. Your own example for instance, of the Christmas Tree is only emphasised by JW's to my knowledge and to chose one small sect is slightly unfair to all those others that don't bother with this passage. I'm told that there are 2,000 cults, sects, denominations, isms and schisms based on Christianity and I'm sure that there is material here for a thousand more books. At the end of the day you can only blame a bad singer for making a hash of the song.

In the case of the historic conversion of pagans to Christianity, I tend to think that they were somewhat willing; at least here in British history. When Rome was Christianised and sent their monks to convert the “heathen of the islands” they found them already and willingly Christianised  with monasteries and churches built.

Apologies if I went on too long.
L&L
Al

Lycona


Age: 31
Zodiac:
Virgo



Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 29
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Reply with quote
I love this kind of discussion!  I especially love it when a bunch of people can talk about it in a civilized and respectful manner.  I've been on way too many sites where it ends up being a bar room brawl.

As a Pagan, I enjoy all of the holidays.  Any reason to have a celebration is good in my book, particularly if it brings joy and happiness to those celebrating.  My family is Christian, and I celebrate Christmas with them as a holiday to get together, eat some good, high-fat food, and generally spend quality time with people I love.  Yule for me is more of the serious, spiritual holiday, but both are needed at that time of the year.  Winter is kind of a blah time anyway, and events like Christmas, New Years, Mardi Gras, and Valentines Day are just what we all need when it is gray, cold, and nasty outside.

I have no problem with Christians borrowing aspects of the Pagan holidays.  The reason Christians took those ideas was that they were some really good ideas!  The only problem that I do have is when Christians flat out refuse to admit the origins of their holidays, or even get downright hostile when you bring up that their holidays are not quite as original as they think.  I have yet to meet a Christian who has a non-Pagan explanation for the origin of the word "Easter."  The more open-minded Christians are fascinated by the word origin, while others simply either don't care to know or do know and deny it.  

As we come upon Easter, I'm reminded at the irony of bunnies and eggs at this time of year, yet it makes a lot of sense.  The world is coming alive, and we all have reason to celebrate.  If we have different reasons for celebrating, so what?  The chocolate bunnies will still taste just as good.
Prof. Akers
Always take the cheap option


Age: 60
Zodiac:
Aquarius



Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 810
Location: U.K.
Reply with quote
'Frankly, my sentiment is that no way could those cultures have used one another as a basis for their religions.  My sentiment is that the ONLY way these religions could have had such similar ideas was if God/Goddess caused similar ideas and thoughts.'

I thought you said you'd done a course?
Did no-one point out that the first christians were Jewish?
That the Jews were captured, taken to Babylon and took on board some of their ideas, that they were taken again this time to Egypt and took on some more ideas.
That the Silk Road passed through Plastine and the Chinese traders went through it on their way to Egypt.
The Indian traders came up the Red Sea and traded with all the peoples there?
Societies do not live in a vacuum, people trade - all over the world, of course religeons are affected and influenced each other.
Without writing a super long discourse on the evolution of near estern religeons, try looking them up on Wikipedia (if nothing else) the way the Summerians influenced the future of Christianity is astounding and they were thousands of year apart.



 
Pagan vs. Christian
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