God is beyond logic. This means that the actions of God are beyond the normal logical analysis of human beings. His actions appear to be beyond the capacity of logic but it does not mean that they are illogical and unjust. When scholars discuss deeply, the actions are found to be really justified. For example Krishna danced with Gopikas. This action appears to be illogical and unjust because our power of vision is limited to this birth only.

These Gopikas were sages in previous birth and requested the Lord to give salvation from all the bonds like bond between husband and wife, bond between parents and children and bond with money. Krishna attracted their children and stole butter, which was their hard earned money. Ordinary human beings who cannot see beyond this birth can never understand these actions. Beyond logic means not illogical but superlogical. Beyond justice does not mean unjust but superjustice.

At the Lotus feet of Datta Swami

I heard of a band called "The God Machine" but that is not any of the reason why I wanted to check them out. I searched all over for atleast one sound clip but no luck.. But what I did come accross is the best non-heated discussions of God I have ever heard or read. The topic is located at freerepublic.com where I have never been before and the topic is based off of an article entitled "God Is The Machine" from wired.com. It's not long, it's all very interesting, it's not heated, and a lot of it is funny.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/793606/posts


My "response" to God, logic, and predestiny..

We are not predestined. Because one might know everything you will ever do, does this mean your life is predestined? What about psychics? They must be a form of God or the Word of God or attuned to God for if they know what you will do before you do it, does this mean they have predestined your life?

Everything God is, we know, for he would want us to know him. To say he is logic is to describe how he would want us to describe him. There is no word used to describe God that we do not know about.

If Jesus is perfect then there can be perfect logic. If there is a degree of temperature, then there is a degree to everything that we percieve.

Predestined is not to control! If God knows what you will do tomorrow, would you believe that he is the one who gives you an itch? The most PERFECT logic of your life at each moment will determine how your life will be played out. This is logic; If you put a ball on a slope it will roll downward. This is every moment of your life, the ball rolling down the hill. If there is a bump up ahead the ball is going to bounce, and we know this, and it is not pre-dertimend, but a logical guess. Now let's say you are this ball. If you choose to swerve out of the way of this bump then the perfect logical outcome is that you will not bounce. Every moment that we call time is changing and every "bit" of this time, changing, will be the factor of the most perfect logical "guess", or outcome.

Just a thought..

The Human incarnation is also present in this world. The analysis of this super man gives a clear idea of the unimaginable God. Thus a practical experience regarding the unimaginable God also exists here. Hence the philosophy has a practical validity in this world. All this analysis is only from the angle of the soul.

Before the creation, there was no soul and there was no universe. In such state, the unimaginability also did not exist because the God was imaginable to Himself. Therefore even the Maya, which is the unimaginability, also disappears and hence even Maya must have birth. The unimaginability exists only with reference to the existence of imaginable Prakruti. But when Prakruti did not exist, even this unimaginability was absent. In such state only Parabrahman existed and not even Maya (Ekameva Advitiyam- Veda).

The entire creation is due to Parabrahman only who is like the hidden Father. Interaction of Father and Mother was a hidden concept and it appears to the world as if the mother alone created and delivered the child. Actually, the child is born due to the father only but the world cannot see the father creating or delivering the child.

The father created secretly the child in her womb and is the indirect or actual cause of the child but that remains secret. The mother appears as if she herself created and delivered the child from her womb. Similarly the Mula Maya appears as if she has created this universe but Parabrahman created this universe through Mula Maya.

Parabrahman remains as a secret like the father. This is told in Gita (Mayadhyakshena, Beejam mam, Aham Beejapradah, Tasmim garbham). Therefore Parabrahman is the cause of the creation of every item in this creation. It appears as if the items of the creation are forming the chain of cause and effect.

For e.g.: If a tree has produced a flower, the actual cause of the production is Parabrahman and is like the hidden father. The tree is like the exposed mother appearing as if it is the cause of the flower. When Veda says Aatmana Aakasah, it means the pure awareness has produced space. The pure awareness (Mula Maya) is like the exposed mother generating space.

But actually the hidden Parabrahman in the pure awareness has produced the space. Similarly Parabrahman is the cause of any work. When the Brahman desired to create, it is the Parabrahman hidden in Brahman desired so. Brahman means the pure awareness in which the Parabrahman is hidden.

When we say that Parabrahman desired to create, we will immediately assume that Parabrahman must be awareness. It is the logic of the nature that whichever desires, must be awareness. But Parabrahman is beyond this logic, and therefore Parabrahman desires and at the same time He need not be awareness.

Veda says that Parabrahman runs without feet and catches without hands (Apani Pado Javano). This means that ParaBrahman does every thing but cannot be detected through its action. By this, you will avoid indicating the Parabrahman by the word ‘awareness’.
Thus Parabrahman is the cause of every work but at the same time, it gives fame to the items of its creation. The fire burns anything and it appears as if the fire has the power to burn and convert anything into ash. But the same fire could not even heat a blade of dry grass thrown by Parabrahman.

This is explained in Kenopanishat. It means that the burning power of the fire is the very power of the Parabrahman. But the fire is given the fame. Thus Parabrahman is the real hidden cause of this world and everything that happens in this world.

To fulfil the validity of the statements of the divine scriptures for which He Himself is the author, He comes down to preach the true knowledge of the scripture and also proves the validity of every statement. Jesus told the same. Thus every statement of Veda and Gita is the constitution for any spiritual argument.

The scientist is taking the universe containing the human beings for the validity of the knowledge. His basic argument is that the perception followed by practical experience associated with logical analysis alone can result in the valid knowledge. But why he is denying the superman who is visible and giving the wonderful knowledge and doing the miracles?

The Lord is donating the supernatural powers to several representatives to prove the existence of the unimaginability called Maya (Yadyat Vibhutimat—Gita). If the existence of Maya is established, the existence of possessor of Maya is also simultaneously established. However to give the proof for His possession of Maya, the Human Incarnation is appearing as the superman.

If the Human Incarnation does not come, people may end with the existence of Maya only, which is the power. The power requires the necessity of the existence of the possessor or the source of power. Otherwise every demon will claim himself as the possessor of the power.

In fact, they claimed so. Such demons were rejected by sages due to absence of the divine wonderful knowledge, which is a part (Sattvam) of His identity Science is playing a very important role in the spiritual knowledge. Science is the logical analysis, which is present in the analysis of this world as well as in the analysis of the divine knowledge.

In fact, sages have analysed the items of the creation with the logical analysis and finally concluded that no item is God. In fact there is no direct way to indicate the God. The only way left over is the elimination of all the items of the creation through logical analysis as said in Veda (Neti neti). Thus the entire spiritual knowledge is filled with science only because you cannot analyse God who is beyond creation.

Thus the Jnana Yoga, which is the identification of the Lord in human form, requires the elimination of fraud human incarnations through logical analysis only. Gita says that the constant association of spiritual knowledge (Jnana) with the science (Vijnana) always continues (Jnanam teham savijnanam, Jnanavijnana truptama).

The knowledge ends when the Lord in human form is recognized. Up to this point there is every possibility to slip and therefore science should be in your hand like a glowing torchlight. When you reach the house, the torch light is put off and now the next step is to please the Lord in human form, you require the blind faith and blind love on Him.

Therefore the logical analysis should be shut down because the Lord is beyond logic. From this point onwards, the devotion (Bhakti) starts. For e.g.: In selecting a girl for marriage, you can examine several alliances with logical analysis. But once you marry a girl, you should not still continue to see the alliances and go on continuing with logical analysis. This devotion leads to service finally.

In both the stages of devotion and service, the scientific analysis must stop. Thus science is the torchlight that helps you to examine yourself and conclude that you are not God already. The science also acts as torchlight in detecting the true path to reach the Lord. Science or Vijnana is also called as Buddhi or Vijnanamayakosa.

This is the driver who leads you in your car up to the place of God. Therefore Gita starts with this driver only (Buddhi Yoga). This torchlight is also useful to eliminate the wrong house. That means you can distinguish the real human form of God from other fraud incarnations. But once you enter the house after deciding that it is the correct house, there is no need of torchlight because the house is full with lights. The Satguru is with full knowledge and logical analysis.

Apart from such excellent participation in the spiritual knowledge, science is also helping you to earn your livelihood. Earning the livelihood is a part and parcel of the Lord’s work. But the science should not divert you to earn the money without limits and lead you to hell through over enjoyment. In such direction, science or knowledge or the part of Veda related to the world is condemned by Gita (Vedavadaratah).

Even the attainment of self by eliminating the gross body and subtle body is done by logical analysis, which is science. With the help of the science, Yajna (Sacrifice) is done. Yajna means cooking the food and offering it to the divine preacher and devotees along with the money as Guru Dakshina. To earn the money also the scientific works are required.

This is stated in Veda (Vijnanam Yajnam Tanute Karmani). Gita also says that God gives the Veda or knowledge. Knowledge leads to work and sacrifice is the result of the work (Karma Brahmodbhavam). Thus science is required even in the sacrifice of work and sacrifice of fruit of work. It forms the very foundation of the entire spiritual knowledge.

Science leading to over enjoyments should be cut down and this is proved by the present environmental pollution. It is going to severely harm the humanity, which is the result of over enjoyments by over applications of science. The Lord condemned such science (Traigunavishayah—Gita). Here science means knowledge and Veda means knowledge.

Therefore here the Veda is referred to science, which is used to earn money. The science shuts its mouth before the super natural human incarnation. A scientist need not be an atheist. He should try to explain the miracles of a Godly man or he should accept the theory of the miracles preached by the Godman. Instead of this, if a scientist rejects the miracles as magic, he is not open-minded.

He is another specimen of conservatism of science-religion. When some sacred ash is produced by a miracle, you cannot condemn that by producing the same ash by magic. There may be two different paths of production of same thing. If you can generate it by one path, it does not mean that the second path to generate the same thing does not exist.

When the Lord in human form is achieved, the blind faith, blind love and blind service are essential to please the Lord. The reason for this is that He exhibits both Rajas and Tamas (bad qualities) to test your firm devotion. The quality Sattvam represents good qualities and the two qualities Rajas and Tamas represent bad qualities.

Unless your devotion is unshakeable, it cannot rise above the three qualities (Sattvam, Rajas and Tamas) and withstand His test (Sagunan samatitya—Gita). The three qualities are the main components along with pure awareness in Maya. Since Parabrahman is above the three qualities and also pure awareness, it is above Maya and even Mula Maya.

Parabrahman is a source of even pure awareness (Brahmanohi Pratishthaham). The Lord Krishna in Brindavanam once told a lie about a maiden to her mother-in-law and her mother-in-law beat the maiden. If the maiden (Gopika) is not above the three qualities or feelings, she would have become angry with the Lord but due to her blind love on Lord Krishna, this incident did not affect her love on Krishna in any way.

The Lord said that He alone is the preacher of the divine knowledge (Jnanitvatmaiva-Gita). He also stated that He would come as divine preacher in every generation and sometimes as several divine teachers in the same generation also according to various levels of requirement (Jnaninah Tattvadarsinah).

The Lord said that when you are matured in the Yoga, you would get the divine preacher and the divine knowledge from Him (Kalenatmani—Gita). Yoga means the training in which you become eligible to withstand the tests of the divine preacher.

Whenever the Lord praises the divine knowledge (Jnanagnihi, Jnanaplavenaiva), the praise goes to the divine preacher who is the human incarnation and from whom alone, the divine knowledge comes out. After reaching the Lord in human form through perfect logical analysis, if you doubt Him, you are slipped forever (Samsayatma—Gita).

The reason for the doubt is His external gross body, which follows all the rules of the nature like birth, death, hunger etc. and the exhibition of His Maya especially Rajas and Tamas, which are bad qualities present in the subtle body. The word Atman in Gita is mentioned in the sense of self or casual body.

Sometimes the word Atman is used in the sense of human form of the Lord because in Sanskrit, the word Atman means the external human body also. The word Atman can be sometimes interpreted in both the meanings of self as well as the divine preacher in the human form.

For example: When the Lord says that the ignorance is to be cut by the knowledge sword of Atman, it may mean the self-analysis done by yourself or the divine knowledge of the Lord in human form (Jnanasinaatmanah, Atmavantam—Gita). Even the word Brahman is used as the self or as the Lord. For example: when he says that a Yogi becomes Brahman (Yogi Brahmabhootah), the word Brahman means the self.

When one fixes Himself in the self (Brahmani sthitah) he becomes Yogi since he attains peace. But when the Lord says that a devotee reaches Brahman and attains bliss (Sa Brahmayoga Yuktatma), here the word Brahman means the Lord in human form. In this verse, the Lord already told in the upper line that by attaining the self, one gets happiness.

Therefore in the second line He cannot repeat about the same self-getting the bliss, which is infinite happiness. People mistake that the Lord told that the Elephant, Cow and a divine preacher should be equally seen (Brahmane Gavi Hastini). The practical experience opposes such interpretations. The divine preacher receives you well.

But when you go near the Elephant, you are beaten. The meaning of this verse is that the Atman, which is the pure awareness, is the same in all these human beings but the difference in their behaviours is due to the difference in their subtle bodies, which are the mixtures of the three qualities in various proportions.

When the equality in the self in every living being is realized, he is not only fixed in his self but also in the self of every living being with equality. He will realize that the souls in all the living beings are one and the same and therefore all the living beings are his co-actors only in different external roles. In such case he will not steal the wealth of other human beings for the sake of comfort of his family members and he will also not kill any living being for food (Sarvabhutahite ratah).




At the Lotus feet of Datta Swami

Thank you Dattaswami

I hate the word and idea of "forever".. makes me cringe, and then want to cry.. heh

Lord is substratum of the whole creation and hence forms base. Without Him creation cannot sustain. Lord created the universe for entertainment. He has given free will to all the human beings to do whatever they like. But, the results will follow the deeds. So, He is indirectly controlling, that is to say that enjoyment for good deeds and misery for bad deeds. Misery is to bring realisation only and not to repeat the same bad deed. Otherwise, He is not responsible for one's deeds.

Creation is in Lord but Lord is not the creation. But such a Lord can enter creation at the request of devotees who wants Him only and His service. He comes down to give four fortunes to His devotees (to talk, to touch, co-living and to serve).