On Diogenes;

"Another Arab anecdote recounts that when people asked Diogenes why he wouldn't talk with them, his trenchant reply was: "Because you are too important for my subtlety and I am too subtle for your importance." He would have observed that the senseless modern need to acquire unimaginable amounts of 'information' on the 'information-superhighway' is simply another infantile dependence fomented by The Market whose system and effects he deplored. How can an animal that surrounds itself with layer upon layer of dependency call itself the present pinnacle of evolution ?"

"It is said that Diogenes trampled upon Plato's carpets with the words "I trample upon the pride of Plato!" - who retorted, "Yes, Diogenes, with pride of another sort." Touché ?

This philosophical attitude is the essence of what Diogenes had to say, which may be summed up as: Neither seek nor want the approbation of any human being. It is the desire for approval and praise that enslaves us to the outrageous conventions which form 'the fabric of civilisation' and make us completely unnatural and discontent animals. Most people will do almost anything to keep others off their backs. Freedom from the desire for approval is the only route to integrity, autonomy, and what Jung called individuation."

One time plato came upon diogenes washing vegetables and said if you knew how to court kings you would not need to wash lettuces. Diogenes replied, if you knew how to wash vegetables you would not need to court kings.

"Being asked why people give to beggars, but not to philosophers, he said, "Because they think they may one day be lame or blind, but never expect that they will turn to philosophy.""

I welcome other quotes and discussion.

Hi, Aegeus,

I have just been listening to one of your songs through the link you gave to your website. It's great to have talented people in the board. I don't know if you are still around, since you posted this a few months ago.

I fully agree with Diogenes in that we depend more and more on external things around us in order not to be left alone with ourselves. He seemed to feel set apart from his peers by his intelligence and that gave him an air of arrogance many of us try to conceal when talking to those we consider beneath our intelligence.

I also agree that the desire for approval can only bring a sense of continual failure, but those who try to live outside the system have it tough, because I am not sure how autonomous one can be in today's society. We depend on others nearly for everything. So how to balance integrity with the need to comply with the most basic social rules? Unless one doesn't mind living life in prison, for example.

I am curious about using Philosophy as a means for achieving some inner peace and understanding, since I am hopeless at the more oriental arts, like meditation. Guess my mind gets too impatient. But I love to read philosopher's quotes and they seem to be good food for my mind. So I find it a little sad that this forum seems so lacking in responses, almost as if the quotes admitted no discussion whatever. I am sure many philosophical ideas are fully relevant today and we can establish parallelisms. Btw, I also read the discussion about the Matrix: that film was full of amazing insights. What a shame the sequels didn't follow up much on the philosophical side of it: they just seemed to get more commercial action shots and gave less food for thought.

Regarding philosophy scriptures Swami VIVEKANANDA says--
"Obey the scriptures until you are strong to do without them,then go beyond them.Books are not an end -all.Verification is the only proof of religious truth.Each must verify for himself;& no teacher who says 'I have seen ,but you cannot' is to be trusted,only that one who says 'you can see too'.All scriptures,all truths are Vedas,in all times,in all countries;because these truths are to be seen & any one may discover them."
In a nut-shell, Swamiji says,self experience is the only truth.

Here we consider the love of knowledge, but we would be better off seeking the knowledge of love. This is not to be found in the brain, but in the breath. No-one can know God through thinking, the knowledge of God is found in being.
All such inversions are not trite, as are mine, nor are they all incisive, as are the instances of Diogenes' remarks.

I've been busy and away from computers for the most part lately but I come and check this site from time to time as there is usually something interesting to be found.

I'm happy to see some responses.

"knowledge of love" an interesting notion. In the kabbalah tree of life there are various spheres, all reflections of the first but different. One of them is the heart center, emotions, love and so on. Another is the mind or intellect. It's said that in the heart center logic or rational thinking does not apply and to try and rationalize the heart is and insult to both the mind and the heart. Some things are not to be known as the mind knows things only experienced. In a sense one can know of love, but one can not know love as you can know how to spell a word.

However the two can be complimentary.

I happen to know Diogens in this life time. He lives out of a back pack finds food does yoga defaces money and is very opinionated.

Yes we do depend a lot on others for the way we live. Life is a delicate balance of interdependence.

I would suggest finding ways to be more grounded. Be it exercise, relaxation, spending time in nature what ever. Then it becomes easier to live ones truth and move through all the man made rules and shit without getting caught in them.

I like the approach of looking within for answers and outside for confirmation.