Q   Does that mean you cannot be happy until you reach Sach Khand?

A   We can be happy onyl when we go back and merge into Him. We can be happy only when we are on the path to our Home. The nearere we are to Him, the happier we are becoming every day. The real happiness will come only when you merge back into Him after meeting Him face to face. When you are coming towards your home from a long distance, as you get nearere to your home you begin to have a little more sense of security within you. A sense of happiness starts coming within you as you come nearer, and a feeling that you will soon be there. When you see your home from a distance you are happy that youhave seen it,yet you are still away from you rhouse. The actual poeace you will get only when you enter yourhouse, when you are in your home. Similarly, the nearer we are to the Lord, the nearer we are to our destination, the more contentment we feel within; the more bliss, the more peace, the morehappiness we feel within. The true and eternal happiness, bliss, peace and contentment we can feel only when the soul is merged back into the Lord.

Q     Master, carrying the same thought forward, when we do merge with the Supreme Father, do we merge to a state where wwe lose our consciousness, as in the overall consciousness, or do we maintain individuality?

A     I think that yesteday we discussed this point. who would not like to merge back into Him? Who would like to retain his individual consciousness, while being in the presence of the Lord? These questions come only when one is under the sway of the mind. Due to our ego, we think we are greater. Why should we merge into anything else? But when we reach that stage, there is no ego; there is only merging. You get peace in losing yourself, losing our identity, in becoming part of the other, in becoming part of God.No drop would like to remain away from the ocean; yet a drop is something different from the ocean. We merge into Him; still we are separate from Him. But nobody likes to retain his individuality at that stage. Even in our human love we always like to do what pleases the other person. We take ourselves out of our 'self'. We feel that we are the other person. We feel that itis not our self moving about, it is the other person. When this happens in the physical human love, what of the love where there is no mind and we are just attrcted to Him, we merge back into Him, we just forget our self; there is no 'self' left there. Who would not like that stage?

Q     Are new souls being created all the time?

A     No.

Q     Were all souls created at one time?

A     That is right, at the time of creation.

Q     The time of creation? There are only just so many souls? An unidentifiable, fixed number?

A     Yes.

Q     Maharaj Ji, some Western teachings, philosophies or schools believe in group souls. In other words, souls also merge in one group?

A     There is nothing like group souls. Some souls have associateions from the past that cause them to be born together, certain karmic associations; but you cannot call them groupo souls. They are individual souls and for a certain time they are together, but they may go different ways. They may not just go together all through even the one physical life.

Q     I guess there are some professors who teach that there are group souls, but I do not go alongwith it. They seem to think all of us are a particle of this, whether it is a human being or ---  ?

A     This karmic association brought us all together for a period. We also have karmic associations with some other group, or some other associations to fulfill. So,it is not true that we will always beled together everywhere. Each soul has its own karma to fulfill, but eventually, all those who are progressing on the path will merge back into Him.


Kal The Negative Power.

Q   In the Philosophy of the Masters it is said that Kal had done seventy yugas of austerities and another sixty-four yugas to receive souls. Was it souls on the entire universe, or souls just on this earth? What souls did he receive?

A   All the souls in this universe are under his domain, and as long as we are under his domain we cannot get release from birth and death. We have to go beyond the domain of Kal, and theLord has given the administration of the whole universe to Kal, that Negative Power, or whatever name you give it.


As long as we are under that domain we are victims of birth and death. WE can get release only when we go beyond that. And the only method of going beyond is to worship somebody who is beyond that domain, and that is the Lord Himself. So, with His love, with His worship, we can go beyond the reach of Kal. Since we have not seen the Lord in human form, in this world and yet we want to love the Lord and worship Him, so we search for His men, God-men; we search for His devotees, His sons. They are in touch with the Lord and we have got to be in touch with them. Through them we also come in touch with the Lord, as Christ said in the Bible, "You have seen me; I have seen the Father; therefore you have seen the Father." The fact is that saints are in tune with the Lord, and when we merge ourelf in a saint, we automatically merge back into the Lord, because saints merge back into the Lord. When our love and devotion will take us to a saint, a Living Master, then we shall also auotmatically rech the Lord by doing the spiritual practice as instructed by the saint.

Saints often explain to us that the relationship of the saints with the Lord is like that of waves with the ocean. A wave rises from the ocean and again merges back into the ocean. Similarly, if you throw anything to the waves, the waves will take it back to the bottom of the sea, and it merges with the waves back into the bottom of the sea.

How to merge back? The Masters instruct us in spiritual practice. We practice that, and merge into them. They are already merged into the Lord, so we also become a part of the Lord. Jesus said, "The Father is in me and I am in the Father." So, when we become 'He', the saint who has already merged into the Father, we also become the Father. It is just through that channel that we go across the domain of Kal, but as long as we remain in his domain we cannot get release from birth and death. Real love and devotion for the Lord, through His saints, the waves of His ocean, alone can take us back to the Lord.

Q     Maharaj Ji, will you explain now the difference between Kal, and Jehnova, and Radha Soami?

A     I do not know, because my knowledge of the Bible is very limited, I must admit. But I do know the difference between Kal and Radha Soami. Radha Soami is just a name of the Lord, nothing else. It is no religion; it is nothing new. It is the same as Sant Mat, the same teachings of the saints, which have been given to us now. Radha Soami is just another name for the Lord. Swami Ji has called Him 'Anami', meaning 'Nmeless'. 'One who has no Name' or 'Without any Name'. Kal is a different entity, and we have to go beyond its reach. Mind is the agent of Kal and always likes to keep us withint its sway. But, we have to rise above it. Only by His grace, actually, frankly speaking, can we get out of it. Otherwise, even the artificial things appear to us as real, while actually everything in Kal's domain is just a mirage. Nothing but His grace can put us on the right path. But we have to make a research with our limited intelligence, and when we are honest and sincere in our search for Him, it is for Him to put us on the right path.

Q    We satsangis are very much acquainted with the ruler of this physical universe as Kal. Many of us are pondering over the question whether he is being with a soul or whether he is just universal mind, activated by spiritual current from the Supreme Father?

A    You want to know what he looks like?

Q    Well, we are trying to imagine a possible outline of his form, if we can. Of course, he does not mean much to a satsangi.

A    I think we had better not analyze what he looks like. We should not try to bother about it at all. It is a power. It is our mind. Universal mind is Kal. The Lord actually is Shabd, and Shabd emantes from the Lord. Similarly, the mind emanates from Kal, and the mind ultimately is Kal.

We should not try to formulate any opinion of what Kal looks like. Why you should even want to think about him, I do not understand. For instance, if we are good citizens, we never bother about the police; on the other hand, criminals are always frightened of the police, as to what they will do to them, how they will punish them. They are always worried and feel guilty because they know that they have done something for which they are bound to be punished. When we come on the path and are attending to our meditation, what fear can we have left about Kal? What is there to think about him? We are all good citizens, and we have a Guide to lead us. Why should we even think about what he looks like?

Q   Would it be correct to say that Kal is just a lower manifestation of the Supreme Father?

A   Nothing has come into being without the Father. Nothing existed before creation, but the Father. What we see is the projection of that Supreme Father, the Supreme Being. So, Kal has also come from Him, and he has an allotted task, which he is doing. Saints also have allotted tasks, which we are doing. This has come from the Supreme Father.

Q   Kal cannot do anything on his own? He has to obey orders from the Supreme Being?

A   Whatever he is doing, he is doing by orders of the Supreme Being. If we admit that Kal does everything independently, it would mean that he is more powerful than the Lord. Everything is under teh command of the Lord, the Supreme Father. Nothing is beyond Him. For example, you have a President, you have an Inspector General of Police, you have an Inspector General of Jails. They each have a duty to perform, but they derive their powers from the President. They are not independent of the President. Each one derives his powers from the same source. They have different duties to perform and they are faithfully performing their duties. We cannot abuse them. Why should we worry about the police when we are good citizens? We cannot abuse the jailer either. He is to do his duty. So, Kal does his own duty, and we are not concerned not bothered about him in the least.

Q   How strong is Kal?


A    Kal is the Negative Power, and mind is its agent, and mind does not want any soul to go back to the Lord. Mind plays all sorts of tricks, but we constantly have to give our attention and time to the devotion to the Lord. If we let our mind get loose, then we have to dance to its tune. When we always keep it under control, then we are naturally safe from its sting. So, mind is avery powerful enemy, but when it is attached to Shabd, it becomes our best friend. (Maharaj Ji mentioned and explained at length how the mind can become our friend, which has already been explained several times, so is omitted here. We cannot become unconscious of the mind. WE always have to remain quite alert, for we never know when it may try to deceive us.

Q     If everything really is a part of God, Kal is a part of God, how did he become such an evil enemy to man?

A     This is all God's creation. In order to run a universe. He needs all sorts of forces to keep people here. If Kal had not been here, we would all have gone back to the Lord again. This universe would not have existed. In order that the universe would not have existed. In order that the universe should go on. He wants such things, so that we get under their sway and forget the Lord; but still He has also kept a way or path, so that we can get release from this domain and go back to Him. If He does not want this universe, it cannot exist even for a day. It is here because He wants it to be here, and whatever you see, all forces have come from Him.

A limited example is a State: Everything comes from the head of the state; all the awards and all the punishments come from him; the courts come from him; even the police come from him; the jails come from him -- all departments are under him. If you do good deeds, you get meritorious awards. If you do bad deeds, the police treat you harshly, perhaps put you in prison and you have to account for what you have done. But we cannot condemn the President or head of the state for all that. He is all good. He does not say anything to anybody about what we are doing here. We are getting merits, we are getting punishments, according to our actions; but he, the President, has to lay out all sorts of administration to run this, so he needs police as well as those who give rewards, and jailers and executioners, too. He needs all these officers in order to carry on. Similar is the case on a universal scale as long as the Lord wants the uiniverse to go on. But those people who are good citizens are not afraid of the jails and the police. Those people who commit crimes are always conscious of them and feel guilty and frightened of the police and the jails.

In the same way, if we remain good citizens of the Lord, we are doing our duty in this world as well as our spiritual practice, we are not frightened of nor giving any thought to what Kal is and what mind is, or what any other forces are, because these are required for the people who are not rightly making use of their time, who are enjoying themselves through the senses and wordly pleasures, and have forgotten Him.

Q    I thought that so much of us belongs to Kal?

A    Kal is just the administrator of the universe. That does not mean that God is not in every one of us. Our heart yearsn for God. We love Him, we worship Him, whether we know how to worship Him or not.

Some people get confused, thinking that those who are not on th epath probably are not loving God. That is wrong. They are loving God, but they do not know how to love God. Whatever the way, they love Him, and do not love Kal. They do not know who he is. But they are under the sway of Kal, so they do not know how to love God. Actually, the inclination of the soul for the Lord is always there. That alone forces us to seek Him. Otherwise we would never even think about Him. But we do not know how to seek Him, unless He wants us to, unless His grace is there to put us on the right path. He is in every one of us. Kal is just the administrator of the universe. Kal sees to it that we do not get out of it, that is all. This does not mean that God is not within us. He is there. But we do not know how to reach Him. We are under Kal's influence. We want to reach the Lord, but Kal has put us on the wrong track. He does not let us worship in the right way. But our heart is never for Kal. Instinctively, it is always longing for the Lord, and tries to go back to the Lord.

Somebody told me that he or she probably has been worshiping Kal before coming to Sant Mat. That is wrong. When we do not know even of the existence of Kal, how can we worship him? We want to be in tune with the Lord, but we do not know how to worship Him. So, with His grace we are put on the path to worship Him and to get out of the reach of that Administrator, that Kal, that Negative Power, the Universal Mind, Devil, Satan or whatever name you give it. He is not without purpose. He is not without the Will of the Lord. He is there through the Will of teh Lord. Nothing exists without the will of the Lord. Kal does not derive his power from anywhere else.

Q     Master, on the astral plane, is it possible for souls there without the benefit of even having known a Sat Guru, to ever come to the realization such as we do in the human body? And for the first time realize the tru Lord and not be satisfied with where they are? Would they have a chance to go on further from there by their own efforts?

A    They need to come back into the flesh and find a Living Master.

Q    Is it then a fact that we need the body in order to grow spiritually, and without the body or in the astral there is no growth whatsoever?

A    There is growth also in the astral planes.

Q    Is it very slow?

A    Very slow, that is right, very slow. That is why this body is known as the top of creation. There are also astral forms, astral regions in the creation, but the human body is considered to be the top of creation because while living in this body we can make better progress, better growth than in those astral regions. But once we have a Master, we do make progress from there too, without coming back into the human form.

Q    Maharaj Ji, when one dies and goes to another region, what are the activitiesof the soul? Are they like anything on this earth?

A    I think I explained that to you this morning. There is no activity. The activity is that of love, to make our way up. What I said yesterday is that we make much better spiritual progress by being in this human form than from inside these astral planes, because here we see so much misery around us that we want to escape from it. So, we are always thinking about the Lord. We want to go back to Him. We do not want to remain here, so we try to work hard to go back to Him. Without intense longing we cannot merge back into Him. And there, since there is no misery, no birth nor death, the yearning to go back is very little.

Q     It is my understanding that when one dies and the soul goes to one of these regions, one spends perhaps about fifteen hundredyears there before one comes back into a human body. What does one do these fifteen hundred years?

A    I cannot set the time-limit as to how long you have to stay there, as that all depends on how much karma remains to be worked off. But having a Master, we may not have to come back into the human body at all. We can alway smake our way up from there. We only come back into a human body if we have certain attachments left in this world. That alone brings us back to this world. Otherwise we do not have to come back.

Q    We know that God is Love; surely God does not create all this killing, suffering in the world; surely man did that by his own sin?

A    Well, sister, from where has the sin come?

Q    It is man's wrong doing, breaking the laws of God.

A    How does man happen to do wrong things when God has created all love?

Q    That is what I often wonder?

A    Everything has come from the Lord. All that you see in His creation. Even the mind has come from Him; the Negative Power has come from Him. He has put the whole creation under the charge of Kal, the Negative Power. And Kal takes care of the whole creation, so he has made his own rules to keep souls here. We have to abide by those rules while simultaneously disentangling ourselves on our way back to the Lord. There is nothing which has not come from the Lord, and when God is all Love, from where has the evil come? Negation of Love becomes evil. When the sun is there, the shade is there. The sun has only light, but the sun also creates the shade.

Q     I wonder if this world was not in the beginning a Garden of Eden and we people were just like children playing with our toys and having a happy time until we got jealous of each other, wanting each other's toys, and so forth?

A     Maybe, but whatever seed of jealousy came in us, it also has come from the Lord. Nothing has come from outside.

Q     That is what seems so confusing, because it all seems so wrong?

A     We often feel that when God is all Love, from where did evil come? That is what we mean. The sun is always in the sky and it is always shining; then from where does the darkness come? It is only when that side of the earth that is facing the sun that there is sunshine, and even then, sometimes the clouds interfere, but we have daylight just the same. When we have no love for the Lord, when our face is turned away from Him, there is evil.

Q     Master, in the four cycles of time, like the golden age, the silver age, the copper age and the iron age, did the sousl in the golden age have physical bodies at that time? Was it on earth?

A     Sister, this is just our clafssification. You can classify this into four ages, or you can classify it into twenty ages. This is, after all, just our own classification. Body is there in every age.

Q     Will you please tell us what is meant by dissolution, and the grand or major dissolution?

A     I think that all this is mentioned in our books. By dissolution is meant the end of the physical universe. Grand dissolution is the absorption of everything, even beyond the astral plane, back into its origin. The final dissolution when He is finished with this 'play', when and if the whole creation ceases, will be when everything is merged back into Him, the source of everything. Saints have tried to explain this to us through the medium of language, but the intellect cannot comprehend all this, so we should not get confused. The saints do not want us to get entangled by thinking about these things. We should concern ourselves only about this physical universe and make use of the means which the Lord has provided for our escape from it and our ultimate return to Him.

Q      After merging back into the Lord, does msn maintain a separate consciousness?

A      In merging, it is still separate. Being in it, you are separate from it. But you are not conscious of your consciousness. There you just merge yourself. Even in wordldly love, when you are with your beloved, you forget yourself completely and want to please only the beloved. You are so absorbed in the beloved that you do not even think about where you are or what you are, even in these physical or worldly emotions. The spiritual is much more fascinating, absorbing; it is much sublimer and nobler. The bliss of merging into the Supreme Being cannot be expressed in mortal language. There is no thought of individuality, consciousness, or anything else. It is all Love, all Bliss, for, in merging, we become the Supreme Being and He is All, He is everything.

Q      Then there is just one consciousness?

A      The Lord is one. When we merge back into Him we become the Lord. We become a part of Him. A drop has its own identity when it is in the mud. When it leaves the ground by means of evaporation, it still has its own identity, separate from the ground and separate from the cloud. But when it merges back into the cloud, it becomes the cloud. That minute part of the cloud becomes the cloud by merging into it. When we love the Lord, we do not like to remain away from the Beloved. We lose our identity by merging back into That, and yet we remain separate from That. For instance, if you merge the flame of a lighted candle into the flame of a fire, can you differentiate whether it is the flame of the fire or the flame of a lighted candle into the flame of a fire, can you differentiate whether it is the flame of a fire, can you differentiate whether it is the flame of the fire or the flame of the candle? When you take the candle away from the fire, you have an independent, individual flame. But when you take it back into the fire, it merges into the fire and is no longer a mere candle light. Similarly, the soul merges into the Lord.

Q      Actually, it is the mind and not the soul that does not want to give up its identity?

A      That is right. Mind is the stumbling block. This ego does not like to lose its identity. We always want to observe that I am so-and=so, I am so-and-so, I am so-and-so, and it is the 'I-ness' that we do not want to lose. WE perhaps think that we have developed it in this modern world, and that it is something quite unique, but the fact remains that the ego is a great stumbling block in our way. This is what we have to lose.